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Marc Clifton wrote: And even then... 
exactly... 
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I think the parallel lies in the fact that switchboard operators were only employed until their jobs could be automated. That was just a matter of time and, I think, inevitable.
Some people are definitely in positions where their day-to-day tasks can be automated. It won't be pleasant for them, and probably not pleasant either for the people who would've used their services. Maybe that's the real impediment preventing it from having taken place already on a large scale.
But then there's also a whole category of people who could be replaced by machinery, where cost is the only thing getting in the way. I remember reading an article some years ago, I think involving McDonald's CEO, saying if he could replace people in their kitchens with a $30,000 machine, he'd do it in an instant. The fact that he came to an exact figure means he's already done the calculation and he's just waiting for it to become cheap enough.
Some people's days are numbered for sure.
I wouldn't want to be an unskilled kid quitting school today at the age of 18.
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dandy72 wrote: I think the parallel lies in the fact that switchboard operators were only employed until their jobs could be automated. That was just a matter of time and, I think, inevitable.
Yuppers. Exactly.
dandy72 wrote: Some people are definitely in positions where their day-to-day tasks can be automated. It won't be pleasant for them, and probably not pleasant either for the people who would've used their services. Maybe that's the real impediment preventing it from having taken place already on a large scale.
Yup. I'd give industry examples of this, but everything is politicized these days. You're smart enough to some industries like this though.
dandy72 wrote: ut then there's also a whole category of people who could be replaced by machinery, where cost is the only thing getting in the way. I remember reading an article some years ago, I think involving McDonald's CEO, saying if he could replace people in their kitchens with a $30,000 machine, he'd do it in an instant. The fact that he came to an exact figure means he's already done the calculation and he's just waiting for it to become cheap enough.
Dude, that's already started. Dunno about the rest of the world, but there's already a fully automated McDonald's in Texas. They're already testing that out to see how it goes. Robotics definitely gonna be a thriving industry at least. 
dandy72 wrote: Some people's days are numbered for sure.
Yeah, that's just it though, it's not always bad even if it's scary. I'm sure there were skilled cave painters at one point, but I for one am glad we have houses and easels now. Just some people only learn just enough in the youth and then stop learning once they age, health declines, etc. Those who understand times change are the ones that survive.
dandy72 wrote: I wouldn't want to be an unskilled kid quitting school today at the age of 18.
Tru dat. For the short term at least, blue collar skills are making a resurgence since for the past couple decades nobody taught their kids how to fix a tire while watching cat videos online. I mean robots will eventually replace that too, but for the next 10-20 years at least you can do pretty well being a plumber, for instance. AI can't do that... yet.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Dude, that's already started. Dunno about the rest of the world, but there's already a fully automated McDonald's in Texas.
I still have to see one
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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As silly as it may sound, I'm waiting to go see it with my brother. IMO it's totally cool. I realize times change, but robots are coming and it's not a bad thing as long as don't forget we're still human.
Anywho, you can view the inside of it via Google already: clickety and clickety . (SFW)
Edit: Actually, I stand corrected. According to dude on YouTube humans are still cooking the food... for now.
Jeremy Falcon
modified 18hrs ago.
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There is another cooler video of a 90% automated grocery store, with several floors of matricial coded cells for different purposes and looking how a big group of mini flat robots move themselves all over the place doing 90° change of directions and ways / going on is priorized...
It was a 5 minutes news / mini reportage of a store in england (around 3 or 4 years ago)... but I haven't found it in a fast check
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Just imagine in 50 years... it's gonna be crazy.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: For the short term at least, blue collar skills are making a resurgence since for the past couple decades nobody taught their kids how to fix a tire while watching cat videos online. I mean robots will eventually replace that too, but for the next 10-20 years at least you can do pretty well being a plumber, for instance. AI can't do that... yet.
My dad retired as an auto mechanic after 41 years (same dealership during all that time), and every once in a while he makes a point of dropping by to visit some of the guys he worked with. Out of 60+ employees, there's only 2 left he still knows - everybody else left, quit, or retired.
Since before my dad left 18 years ago, the owner has been running ads to find replacement mechanics, and they're still looking for people. Nobody shows up - ever. In those 18 years, the mechanics got decent raises, making roughly 2/3 more than what my dad was making on the day he left. Still it's not enough to entice anyone.
And the job isn't what it used to be. Now everybody uses a laptop hooked up to the car, it runs the diagnostics and tells you what to replace. The job as a mechanic is now just to replace the parts the computer tells you. Clearly the writing's on the wall.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Robotics definitely gonna be a thriving industry at least. 
Has been for decades, of course, I still recall the 70's adverts for cars "handbuilt by robots". Of course he blue collar assembly jobs went, and that caused a big shift and not a little unease/unrest.
My biggest gripe with AI isn't with AI per se but with the attitude that it can be trained for free on the labours of others. It's almost like where a highly skilled worked is made "redundant" but then has to train their super cheap replacement to do the job in their place. We've already seen the take what you need want and if anyone complains set the lawyers on them arguments. Sort of like what we in the UK call a SLAPP.
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Have you read the book, Linchpin: Are You Indispensible[^], (2008) by Seth Godin
By coincidence I am listening to it for the 11th time -- yes I'm serious.
I read this book twice and now I listen to it every year, at least once, since I first read it.
Here's a gem:
Linchpin: The difference between what an employee is paid and how much value she produces leads to profit. If the worker captures all the value in her salary, there’s no profit.
As a result, capitalist profit-maximizing investors have long looked for a way to turn low-wage earners into high-value producers. Give someone who makes five dollars a day an efficient machine, a well-run assembly line, and a detailed manual, and you ought to be able to make five or twenty or a thousand times what you paid in labor.
The author is not saying this is a great idea.
He is saying it is "the way the system works".
And when a system works, the people are going to work the system.
People who understand that are going to "work the system" with AI.
Yes, it is too bad. It's why we all have to grow / get skills that AI cannot reproduce easily.
I understand you are one of those who thinks this too and who has skills.
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raddevus wrote: The difference between what an employee is paid and how much value she produces leads to profit. If the worker captures all the value in her salary, there’s no profit.
That's a pretty good quote, and accurately reflects the real-world situation.
It didn't take me long for me as a kid to realize that you're rarely paid what you think you're worth--your pay is the intersection point where you're willing to accept the minimum your employer offers.
The delusion of what some people think they're worth explains why so many people hate their jobs. Or they simply don't have the job they want (and think they can do).
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dandy72 wrote: The delusion of what some people think they're worth explains why so many people hate their jobs. Or they simply don't have the job they want (and think they can do).
You sir, just won the Internet for today. 
Jeremy Falcon
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dandy72 wrote: It didn't take me long for me as a kid to realize that you're rarely paid what you think you're worth
Agreed. You aren't paid based upon what you're worth to the company. You're paid based upon how replaceable you are.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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raddevus wrote: Have you read the book, Linchpin: Are You Indispensible[^], (2008) by Seth Godin
Haven't read it. Most of my audio books over the past few years have been market related. You've totally piqued my interest though. I'll have to put it in the queue.
raddevus wrote: By coincidence I am listening to it for the 11th time -- yes I'm serious.
That's because you're a learner, buddy. If the material is important you want to make sure it's absorbed, then relistening to books are great. Beats the hell out of watching the same movie over and over.
raddevus wrote: The author is not saying this is a great idea.
He is saying it is "the way the system works".
Tru dat. Being a bit of an economics nerd these days, I don't think producing more value than you're paid is bad. Companies have to do this too. Yes there are crap companies out there that try and scam the system, but consumers love when a company over delivers and under charges. It's called a good deal or a bargain. People only think it's bad when it's employment... because most people just want something for nothing.
IMO the problem occurs when greed gets out of hand... from the government on down. Corrupt people will always take a good system and pervert it. Even if we changed the system to something new, the incorrigible will pervert that system too. It's what they do.
raddevus wrote: And when a system works, the people are going to work the system.
You beat me to it. 
raddevus wrote: Yes, it is too bad. It's why we all have to grow / get skills that AI cannot reproduce easily.
Yup, which means we need to specialize to help train AI for stuff it's not aware of yet, work on AI itself, learn prompt engineering, learn two industries (tech and something else) since AI isn't there yet, or learn soft skills. The clock is ticking and I'd be shocked if in 20 years some of these run of the mill LOB jobs still exist.
raddevus wrote: I understand you are one of those who thinks this too and who has skills.
Thanks buddy. I think that's we jive. You give the impression you're a lifelong learner too. Adapt or die. Always been the way, will be the way in our lifetime for sure.
Jeremy Falcon
modified yesterday.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: I don't think producing more value than you're paid is bad. Companies have to do this too.
As they should. Companies are in business to make a profit, not to ensure people are employed.
There are no solutions, only trade-offs. - Thomas Sowell
A day can really slip by when you're deliberately avoiding what you're supposed to do.
- Calvin (Bill Watterson, Calvin & Hobbes)
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Remember them well. My wife's aunt was one. Had to learn a new skill.
Pick up our first phone and the operator said "number please". Was a party line. No dial or keypad. I think our first phone number was something like 264.
Anyone left ponders old enough to remember ads that said: "In New Jersey, dial Bigelow 8-1234"?
How about the Acme Buggy Whip Company? If AI had been around back then, it would have said that the world would be knee deep in horse manure by now. 
>64
It’s weird being the same age as old people. Live every day like it is your last; one day, it will be.
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theoldfool wrote: Remember them well. My wife's aunt was one. Had to learn a new skill.
Glad they were there when we needed them though. No way this country would've advanced so much in the 1900s without communication.
theoldfool wrote: I think our first phone number was something like 264.
Nice. Kinda like getting one of the first .COMs. Too bad you couldn't keep it.
theoldfool wrote: Anyone left ponders old enough to remember ads that said: "In New Jersey, dial Bigelow 8-1234"?
Not I. When I grew up we were "fancy" with rotary phones. But, I do think those of us who came afterwards would do well to know of what came before ya know. Always a joy hearing your perspective.
theoldfool wrote: How about the Acme Buggy Whip Company? If AI had been around back then, it would have said that the world would be knee deep in horse manure by now. 
Jeremy Falcon
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Quote: When I grew up we were "fancy" with rotary phones.
Seems like phones with push buttons were sort of a "status symbol" because they charged more per month. That was back in the day when you used the telco's phone. I always thought the "2 piece" phone was neat. Base had the dial and microphone, and you held an ear piece up to your ear. Tried to buy one of the antique wooden wall mount boxes with the hand-crank a while back, in an estate auction. Too many other people wanted it. Back in the day, we did lot of farm auctions.
>64
It’s weird being the same age as old people. Live every day like it is your last; one day, it will be.
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What is The Matrix?
Caveat Emptor.
"Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
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Have heard that AI has given rise to a new job called Prompt Engineer.
Or, is there already an AI to replace such Prompt engineers?
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Amarnath S wrote: Have heard that AI has given rise to a new job called Prompt Engineer.
Yup, they're growing in demand. To be fair though, it's a short spike as AI gets smarter and smarter. But for the next several years for sure, it's a good field to be in.
Amarnath S wrote: Or, is there already an AI to replace such Prompt engineers?
Yeah exactly. What peeps don't realize is that progression is not linear with machines. It will be exponential when they hit that tipping point... watch.
Jeremy Falcon
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Probably a huge influx of intellectual property lawyers suing for infringement.
A new skill, now how to make 90 day wonder lawyers. GD&R
>64
It’s weird being the same age as old people. Live every day like it is your last; one day, it will be.
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I have an aunt who was a telephone operator.
Meanwhile... my father (her brother) spent his career (1950s to 1990s) as an Electronics Engineer... designing automated telephone switching systems (relays, tubes, transisters)... He put his own sister out of a job!
Then telephone switching systems became computerized. It's all software now. He retired.
Technology marches on.
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Maybe it's just me. 10 years ago, I would occasionally poke around DICE and it seemed like real people and companies were posting jobs. Now? Not so much. This is what I see on every posting: "Employers have access to artificial intelligence language tools (“AI”) that help generate and enhance job descriptions and AI may have been used to create this description."
As soon as you go to dice, you get an immediate idiot pop up "is there something I can help you with?" Don't worry, I'm not picking on dice, so many sites and companies have this turd it is a joke. Worse, most of the HUMANS you talk to after getting through the bot are as dumb as a brick as well. Just didn't want to offend bots out there.
The last thing I am going to do is submit anything to a recruiter. Anyone else seeing the AI "revolution" just automating shoveling BS?
Charlie Gilley
“Microsoft is the virus..."
"the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money"
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