Visual Basic

Christian Graus26-May-07 23:28

26-May-07 23:28

Google broken where you live ?

VB.NET is an object oriented language that is based on the .NET framework and uses verbose, English like syntax that some people find comforting, and others find annoying. This pursuit of simplicity actually complicates VB at times, but it's still a powerful language.

VB6 is a joke. Everything bad about VB.NET is stuff that was carried over for VB6 to help people migrate to it. It's main purpose in life was to let people who could not learn C++, write simple business apps

Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
"I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )

The ANZAC27-May-07 11:10

The ANZAC

27-May-07 11:10

You C++ people can't understand that sometimes people have a preference for vb.net nto because they are incabable of learning C++, perhaps you shoul watch how you phrase things because alot og things you say are sounding more and more like th industry standard arrogance that everyone should avoid. Its what makes the IT world frightening to some people because you overwhelm them with the idea that they know so little that they may as well leave it to the people who already know it instead of learning it themselves.

Posted by The ANZAC : "WWBD, What Would Buffy Do?" : "I don't know man, she's stronger than me"

Christian Graus27-May-07 16:58

27-May-07 16:58

Hey, I said that VB.NET is more English like, and that some people like it that way. What else do you want ? VB6 is still a disaster, that's just the truth.

Xandip27-May-07 23:08

Xandip

27-May-07 23:08

so you say that vb is a disaster..?? dont ever do the mistake of comparing between languages.. Programming in any language is child's play.. but to have the right knowledge of WHAT to do and WHEN to do, is more important..
Take it as an advice..

The name is Sandeep

Christian Graus27-May-07 23:34

27-May-07 23:34

Xandip wrote:
so you say that vb is a disaster..??

VB6 was and is, yes.

Xandip wrote:
dont ever do the mistake of comparing between languages..

Why not - should I just choose them blindly ?

Xandip wrote:
but to have the right knowledge of WHAT to do and WHEN to do, is more important..

I'm not sure what this means, but I have used VB6, and I stand by my comments - it's poorly designed, and poorly put together, Microsoft obviously just threw stuff at it, their only desire to make it easy for people in suits to get a button on a form and a view into a database.

Xandip28-May-07 0:04

Xandip

28-May-07 0:04

Christian Graus wrote:
Why not - should I just choose them blindly ?

you must choose them, based on the needs you have.. you tell that vb is a joke bcoz its of no use for you.. The same way.. sometimes i think that whats the use of C++ ??

Christian Graus wrote:
get a button on a form and a view into a database.

May i remind you that the programmer is not the one who decides what the interface should show, and how to respond when a button is clicked.. Its the user requirement which forces the programmer to do so..
So even if your client wants to view the database with a single click, then i dont think you will be able to do it without VB.

The name is Sandeep

Christian Graus28-May-07 11:33

28-May-07 11:33

Xandip wrote:
you must choose them, based on the needs you have..

VB6 was created to service one need - the need to write code for people who didn't know C++, and couldn't or didn't want to learn it. That's just a fact.

Xandip wrote:
The same way.. sometimes i think that whats the use of C++ ??

ROFL - that's a pretty ignorant view, given that without C++, VB would not exist, nor would Windows. And especially given that C++ is the *only* widely used language on Windows that can do *anything* that's possible to be done. I'll write you a business app in C++ before you can write me a 3D game in VB6.

And, VB6 always traded on the ability to buy COM components ( written in c++ ) to do the things it could not do.

Xandip wrote:
May i remind you that the programmer is not the one who decides what the interface should show, and how to respond when a button is clicked

So what ?

Xandip wrote:
Its the user requirement which forces the programmer to do so..

Correct

Xandip wrote:
So even if your client wants to view the database with a single click, then i dont think you will be able to do it without VB.

Then you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and should just give up on the discussion. VB6 may let you do that with less lines of code than C++ ( C++ doesn't have particularly great libraries for database support ), but to say that C++ couldn't read a database table so a user can view it, is just plain ignorant. When you write code in VB, it's still C++ that is reading the database, anyhow. VB is a layer of abstraction to keep the code simple for you.

This discussion is moot now anyhow. C# and VB.NET are the best ways to write that sort of business application, they are easier to use than C++, have more up to date libraries, and don't suffer from the bad language design that VB6 did, although I still prefer C# because of things like sane syntax and strong typing. I said from the start, I have no issue with people prefering VB.NET, both C# and VB.NET perform equally and have the same libraries to call on.

What am I missing?

MikMit26-May-07 16:52

MikMit

26-May-07 16:52

I am relatively new to .net. While I have dabbled in it, I haven't done anything serious. Now I'm trying to build a fairly complex dll/assembly and am running into a real frustration.

I need to have a property that is both read/write and pulls/puts data into a collection based on a unique key. The problem is, I can't overload the set portion to allow for the key to be passed along with the value. Here are the examples of both uses:

MyValue = Field(100)
Field(100) = "Frank"

I could do this very easily in VB6. I know this is more like a function than a property. Do I really need to write two functions with one overloaded? And if I do that, the second let syntax won't work. It would look like this:

Field(100,"Frank")

While that's useable, it's not very consistent or user-friendly for someone using this assembly. Not only that, it creates a real migration problem. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

CalmlyFrustrated

Re: What am I missing?

Dave Herren26-May-07 17:34

26-May-07 17:34

What you probably want is an indexor... read this.

Indexers In C#[^]

topcoderjax - Remember, Google is your friend.

Try this Custom Google Code Search

Re: What am I missing?

MikMit26-May-07 17:47

MikMit

26-May-07 17:47

Thanks for the suggestion. This particular function/property doesn't necessarily have sequential numbering. It also has potentially 65535 indices. I don't really have a choice as to the structure (it's a file format of a third-party program). What I'm using in VB6 is perfect and I'm struggling with the idea that dot net can't do it. It feels like I'm going backwards porting things to dot net.

Public Property Get Field(FldNo as Long) as String

..... code

End Property

Public Property Let Field(FldNo as Long, Value as String)

..... code

End Property

This allows the calling routine to address this property just like any other property. I originally wrote it as a method but the property approach is so much more convenient to code.

CalmlyFrustrated

Re: What am I missing?

Dave Herren27-May-07 1:59

Simple Visual Studio Projects for students

27-May-07 1:59

Indexors don't have to use sequential numbering, though that's probably what you saw in the example, you can do anything with the index and the value once you have them. The index doesn't even have to be number. But if you want another alternative you could declare a struct with a long and a string and have that be the Type of your property. No other options come to mind but good luck.

topcoderjax - Remember, Google is your friend.

Try this Custom Google Code Search

Visual Very Basic26-May-07 12:40

Visual Very Basic

26-May-07 12:40

hi,

I am looking for some simple Visual Studio Projects for senior secodary students (17-18 yrs old) as part of a course in programming using Visual Studio 2005.

They have been through the IDE in painful detail and now want to get their hands dirty with some projects.....

I would really appreciate it if someone could recommend a book or set of projects which I could find/purchase/steal to assist these kids and me (of course)

Thanks in advance

The ANZAC26-May-07 15:12

The ANZAC

26-May-07 15:12

I am 17 years old and am self-taught, i always found simple projects like timers, programs that work with math problems etc. A good one is also word processor, maybe to be worked on all together, there is a great example on codeproject that you can start with. Another good one is working with textboxes and .txt files and the steamreader and writer classes to save and retrive text from text files, quite simple but good to learn.

Posted by The ANZAC : "WWBD, What Would Buffy Do?" : "I don't know man, she's stronger than me"

Thomas Stockwell26-May-07 15:35

Thomas Stockwell

26-May-07 15:35

I am a junior in high school, self-taught, and I just code random programs for my classes. My website: thomas.stockwell.googlepages.com has most of the programs that I have worked on, as well as some source code for some of the projects. For some fun GUI applications I would suggest a game like battleship which can be found at my website. Currently for my AP Computer Science course I am working on a chess game that is tackling graphics and logic.

A few books that I have found very insightful and fun to work with have been VB.NET Hacks and Pranks. The book covers various mathematical operations relating to fractals, custom drawing routines, windows customization, windows control customizations and I believe it has a few games in their too.

Regards,
Thomas Stockwell

Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

Visit my homepage Oracle Studios[^]

Dave Herren26-May-07 15:39

26-May-07 15:39

As I am typing this, I am googling ideas that come to mind... my criteria being 1)interesting/fun 2)reasonably easy 3)lots of vb.net examples on the internet. I'm assuming you can google these topics and look through the examples, but I've included examples where I can find them from either this site or another a vb site I trust (http://www.devx.com[^]). Here's what I've got:

1)VB.net Screen Saver
Screen Saver Development[^]

2)Chat Application
Home-brew Your Own Instant Messenger App with Visual Studio .NET[^]
Extend Your Instant Messenger Application with FTP Support and Private Chat[^]

3)Tic Tac Toe
Yet Another Tic Tac Toe[^] - Lots of room for ui improvement here

4)A progression in game development from tic tac toe would be reversi/othello, but the only examples I found were in c#, but converting the c# to vb.net might make an interesting exercise for them.

Reversi in C#[^]

I would provide them with material on a simple example and turn them loose to enhance it. Let them do research with google. Give extra credit in User interface design and Innovative coding (but on coding I'd require that documentation should be written and give additional credit on the quality of the documentation as well).

Anyway all I've got for now but will keep thinking on it.

topcoderjax - Remember, Google is your friend.

Try this Custom Google Code Search

Christian Graus26-May-07 15:48

26-May-07 15:48

I firmly believe that for people to be able to program, they should write console apps first. Console or otherwise, I Think a calculator is an excellent first 'real' project.

Dave Herren26-May-07 16:03

26-May-07 16:03

Christian Graus wrote:
they should write console apps first

Yeah, but that's about as fun as a bag of dirt. Sure, it'll make them focus on coding, but these are highschool students; they're not going to become great programmers in high school... at this point I think getting those who might have an aptitude for it interested and fired up for would be best. Plenty of time to make them 'real' programmers in college, but they won't be studying programming in college if you can't give them enthusiasm now.

topcoderjax - Remember, Google is your friend.

Try this Custom Google Code Search

The ANZAC26-May-07 21:18

The ANZAC

26-May-07 21:18

Very Valid Points

Posted by The ANZAC : "WWBD, What Would Buffy Do?" : "I don't know man, she's stronger than me"

Christian Graus26-May-07 23:31

26-May-07 23:31

Only if your goal is *not* to teach programming.

Christian Graus26-May-07 23:30

26-May-07 23:30

Funny, I basically did console programming from the age of 14 on an Apple ][, and I taught myself C++ by focusing on the console. People who learn things backwards, tend to learn bad habits and stick to them. If the point of the course is to generate people who will never be programmers, but give the school a few points for offering a tech subject, then, sure, let them play with the wizard and write bad code. Give them an A if thier program doesn't erase the hard drive. For my kids, I'd rather they learn properly, or not at all.

Dave Herren27-May-07 2:45

Re: Simple Visual Studio Projects for students [modified]

27-May-07 2:45

You c++ guys are so funny. But yes, I guess yes what I am proposing is that you can't teach real programming in a first year class in highschool. If they followed it up with second and third year classes then you could though.

It's like highschool french. The first year will, if you're lucky, will give you the vocabulary of a 2 year old, but there will be lots of discussions of french culture and the teacher will occasionally bring in french food. In most schools students are required to take a first year language class and this opens up their minds to the idea of being able to speak another language. Then there's french 2 which delves much deeper into the language, but is still a little fun. Third year french cuts out english almost entirely and it's more like sitting in a french classroom taking a grammar and writing class in french.

I mean come on if this were a serious programming class they wouldn't be teaching visual basic, but because it's more verbose I think it is a good choice for a first year class. I would start second year with console apps in c# and lay heavy into programming concepts and design patterns. Third year should be treated like a development shop. Full sdlc and larger projects, but still continue with some concept based teaching.

It also depends on if the first year class is mandantory or an elective. If it were an elective I'd start with C# and be harder on the class. I guess I had the idea it might be required to take a technology class.

topcoderjax - Remember, Google is your friend.

Try this Custom Google Code Search

Dave Herren27-May-07 3:17

27-May-07 3:17

Oh and I started programming on an atari gaming console in atari basic. My parents bought me a model that had a keyboard and let you pop in cartriges to store your programming on. I was about 10 at the time and I don't think my parents realized you could program on the thing. I went and bought a book and taught myself. Later I did macros in amipro on my dads computer. I also had a programmible calculator in highschool. If my parents had encouraged me or I had other friends who liked programming I might have done c++ but the opportunity never presented itself. I continued studying over the years with vb 4, 5, and 6 and eventually it occured to me this could be a career. By the time I went to college after the navy everything was a refresher except pointers in C++. While I was in college .net came out, I picked up a copy on my own and learned C# and vastly prefer it. I got a job right out of college doing c# and have been programming ever since. I still love studying and improving my skills.

My start in programming was quite by chance. Some of these kids will get a start in programming in this class that never would have before. It's up to them from there.

-- modified at 10:11 Sunday 27th May, 2007

topcoderjax - Remember, Google is your friend.

Try this Custom Google Code Search

MidwestLimey30-May-07 8:11

MidwestLimey

30-May-07 8:11

WOOHOO! Atari BASIC!

10 PRINT "I learned all I needed to know (apart from *s) on Atari BASIC!"
20 GOTO 10

Taught myself how to code on an 800XL from '85 to about '90 I think. Then I moved on to an Amiga and learned a bit of FORTH. By '93/'94 I was on to SPARCs and C at Uni.
I think as a result of my dynamic background I've become quite language Agnostic: I hate 'em all for one reason or another Big Grin | :-D