Survey Results

Christian Graus13-Aug-01 22:30

Christian Graus

13-Aug-01 22:30

Active Desktop is indeed something I had some fights with. And ofcourse there are a lot of things in Windows where I'm not happy about,

So we agree then that having everything a web page is not necessarily a good idea, but you wanted to argue because I was mean about Microsoft ?

Christian

Secrets of a happy marriage #27:

Never go to bed if you are mad at each other. It's more fun to stay up and fight.

AlexMarbus13-Aug-01 22:48

13-Aug-01 22:48

So we agree then that having everything a web page is not necessarily a good idea, but you wanted to argue because I was mean about Microsoft?

No, not at all. Actually, I don't want to argue at all Smile | :)

What I was trying to say is that Active Desktop at this moment is not the way it should be. The idea of turning your desktop into a webpage is a great idea, it's just too slow and too instable the way it is at this moment.

--
Alex Marbus
www.marbus.net
But then again, I could be wrong.

Rufus17-Aug-01 7:28

Rufus

17-Aug-01 7:28

> Of course there is an option; nobody forces you to use Microsoft products.

I'm not anti-Microsoft, but that line is the most commonly used bit of BS in any discussion group.

Nobody forces me to buy a car either, but how far do I get without one?

If I didn't have to earn a living or communicate with others, maybe I could live without it.

AlexMarbus17-Aug-01 12:16

17-Aug-01 12:16

Nobody forces me to buy a car either, but how far do I get without one?

I'm sure you'll get quite far with a bicycle, motorcycle or by foot.. in the same way that you could make a living and/or communicate with others if you were using Sun's Solaris, Linux (or any other Unix-wannabe-with-GUI), Unix, MacOS, whatever.

--
Alex Marbus
www.marbus.net
But then again, I could be wrong.

13-Aug-01 14:20

I sure hope not. The web as we know it will be dead in a few years - it is just distributed paper in it's current form. Could be far more powerful if this web services (really network services - has nothing to do with the 'web') thingy takes off. I think it will in a big way.

Michael P Butler14-Aug-01 11:50

Michael P Butler

14-Aug-01 11:50

Oh please god no! Smile | :)

I'm from the old school, html is good for documents - Visual C++ and proper windows (HWNDs) are good for applications.

I'm currently working for a company that has decided to write all there future inhouse applications using HTML/JavaScript/Java Servlets. What would have been a nice quick project in VB/VC has turned into a complete nightmare for them. I mean I could understand if the application was to be used remotely but it's launched and interacts with a FoxPro 5 app for goodness sake.

Lots of buzz words and little brains make for a dangerous combination.

Sorry just had to get that off my chest. It's been annoying me for a while.

(Now if I could only get them to rewrite it in .NET using C# and ASP.NET with ADO.NET and FISHING.NET and FOOTBALL.NET and TENNIS.NET and BASKETBALL.NET and NET.BALL .... oh you get the idea) Smile | :)

Michael

AlexMarbus14-Aug-01 11:54

14-Aug-01 11:54

Oops, maybe I did not express right what I was trying to say.
Ofcourse, there is no other language than C++ (talking about little brains Wink | ;)

). But we can't avoid having HTML as the interface to the user. It will be the future, and it is so much more clear to the user, because it almost all looks the same.

Like the other .NET ideas of you Smile | :)

--
Alex Marbus
www.marbus.net
But then again, I could be wrong.

jkgh19-Aug-01 0:07

jkgh

19-Aug-01 0:07

.. I love companies like this.

The more places whose marketing departments are allowed access to the keys for mission control and the self distruct button the better chance I/we have in creating MS#2, Sun#2, etc.

I'm more than happy to teach them as many buzzwords as possible, but they don't usuallly need the help.

C++/C# Student.
Wither Thee VB.Net.

Anders Molin13-Aug-01 11:22

Anders Molin

13-Aug-01 11:22

I guess that's because you don't know what you talk about.

Sorry, but I just had to say it.
I'm *so* tired og hearing people say stuff like that.

If you really hate windows that much, why do you program for it Confused | :confused:

- Anders

Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"

AlexMarbus13-Aug-01 11:57

13-Aug-01 11:57

I agree with the full 100 percent.

yeah, let's start a fight here Smile | :)

I'm kidding ofcourse, but I do believe that it's okay to give your opinion about an OS or any other software (or even hardware), as long as you give arguments why it's bad. We don't have to agree with it, but if you explain why it's bad (in your eyes) we can understand your problem and try to see things through your eyes.

--
Alex Marbus
www.marbus.net
But then again, I could be wrong.

Christian Graus13-Aug-01 14:09

Christian Graus

13-Aug-01 14:09

Your sig says money talks, but you obviously don't believe it. I program for Windows because that is where the money is. I haven't really looked at the alternatives enough to comment on them, precisely because I know that they are unlikely to provide a way to feed and clothe my family.

Christian

Secrets of a happy marriage #27:

Never go to bed if you are mad at each other. It's more fun to stay up and fight.

Don't go there

13-Aug-01 4:17

Get Linux and convince your boss of it's capability, i'm developing programs on Linux for 2 years now and in 99% of the cases where things go saur it was my own fault.
Try that on your average winx machin. My life certainly got a lot better.

Nemanja Trifunovic13-Aug-01 6:16

Nemanja Trifunovic

13-Aug-01 6:16

I was stupid enough to listen to some of these penguin lovers, and installed Mandrake 7.2 on my second hard-drive Frown | :(

It is less stable then Windows 3.0. Not to mention its incomplete and out of date documentation. Now, I don't know about XP, but Win 2k is a great OS: stable, easy to use and well documented.

I vote pro drink Dead | X|

#realJSOP13-Aug-01 7:11

#realJSOP

13-Aug-01 7:11

You mean "sour"? For the record, anytime ANYTHING goes sour on my machine (be it Linux or Windows - and yes, I use both) it's been my fault. So, what's your point?

AlexMarbus13-Aug-01 7:29

13-Aug-01 7:29

I have to agree with Nemanja; I installed a couple of Linux-flavours and they just don't get stable. I can't understand why that OS ever became so famous.

I'm not pro-Windows or pro-Microsoft at all; there are a lot of great OSes out there (BeOS, Atheos, hell even MacOS (not X)), Linux just ain't one of them.

--
Alex Marbus
www.marbus.net
But then again, I could be wrong.

Peter Weyzen13-Aug-01 10:41

Peter Weyzen

13-Aug-01 10:41

Ever try to develop on MacOS?

I've never had to reboot a machine so many times in my life. Developing on MacOS made me appreciate developing under NT.

AlexMarbus13-Aug-01 11:55

13-Aug-01 11:55

As a matter affect, yes I have. And you're right, whenever you do something 'stupid' (memory-related) you have to reboot (Same goes for Win9x/ME).
OTOH: I don't think the OS is really bad at all, and for a normal user point of view it's far more stable than all Linux-flavors I've worked with.

--
Alex Marbus
www.marbus.net
But then again, I could be wrong.

Chris Maunder13-Aug-01 12:58

Chris Maunder

13-Aug-01 12:58

I can't understand why that OS ever became so famous

Because it's free and you get to see the source code Wink | ;)

cheers,
Chris Maunder (CodeProject)

Nemanja Trifunovic13-Aug-01 13:08

Nemanja Trifunovic

13-Aug-01 13:08

You can see the free code in Windows. That is, if you are familiar with assembler.

I vote pro drink Dead | X|

AlexMarbus13-Aug-01 20:52

13-Aug-01 20:52

Will that be the only reason? In that case, I pass.
I've never worried about paying a (reasonable) price for software and/or OSes. And I don't care about the sourcecode of Windows, I have enough help using the MSDN Library.

Better to pay something for a product that is stable and written by a number of developers who know what they're doing, than using free stuff written by a huge number of kids who consider it 'My First Project'.

--
Alex Marbus
www.marbus.net
But then again, I could be wrong.

#realJSOP14-Aug-01 3:45

#realJSOP

14-Aug-01 3:45

I think Linux is quite stable as long as you install it with sufficient knowledge of your system and how to make things work. Like anything else, the fancier you get, the more likely it is that you'll hose it up.

The real problems that keep Linux from overwhelming acceptance are:

1) The lack of a standard, simple, and problem-free installation procedure. Each distribution does it their own way so you never know what to expect when you install a different dsitribution.

2) The GUI is TOO configurable. The only standard part of it is the underlying core (X-Windows). There are DOZENS of window managers available, and they all look and perform differently, and many times, even the most subtle differences can confuse the average home user.

3) It allows you to get too close to the commandline. Many people nowadays have been lulled into a semi-conscious state of awareness by the Windows desktop and its ease of use. The concept of being able to configure things outside the GUI really bothers a lot of people.

4) Hardware support is still sketchy (on a good day), and intimate familiarity with your hardware is a necessity if you expect to get everything working.

5) Most end-users don't give a damn about the source code. They want something that's pretty, fast, reliable, and automatically works with every piece of hardware in the known world (and any future piece of hardware that might be invented).

6) There's no games available for it. Face it people - until there's solid support from the game publishers (not the actual programmers, but the people that actually market the software), Linux is always going to be an 'also-ran" in the OS wars. The problem is that getting accelerated support for your video card of choice can be a problem since most of the video card manufacturers are less excited about Linux than they are about Windows since [typically] only gamers get the absolute latest and greatest hardware. If there's no drivers, there's no gamers. No gamers, no games. It's a chicken-egg thing.

7) If you still want to run your Windows programs, you have three choices - VMWare (commercial product), WINE (public development), or Lin4Win (commercial product - requires Windows 95 or 98). None of them provide the support for games that you need, but most of your productivity apps should run nicely. My personal recommendation would be Lin4Win.

8) It's hard to get a financial foothold as a Linux developer because the users are so accustomed to getting their software for free (WITH SOURCE CODE) that they're not likely to pay for (or endorse) your product. If there's no money to be made, then no commercial software will be made.

9) The news media can't cover Linux because nobody's really in charge. With Windows, we have Microsoft. With Linux, we have Redhat, SUSE, Mandrake, Slackware, Corel, Debian, Turbo, Gentoo, blah, blah, blah. While that can be a good thing, it's also keeping Linux in the closet.