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Hi everyone,
I'm a high school guy who enjoys programming immensely, however I have heard that, although there is a high starting salary, there is not much room to go. I'm not at all trying to be rude, but what do you guys make yearly (in dollars)? I'm just trying to decide if its a profession that can support me later in life.
Thanks again,
~ Selevercin
If you have a problem with my spelling, just remember that's not my fault. I [as well as everyone
else who learned to spell after 1976] blame it on
Robert A. Kolpek for U.S. Patent 4,136,395.
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Salary packages vary greatly.
But I do know a coder or two who earn more than plastic surgeons.
However I would never tell anyone to get into developing for the money, you must want to do it, similar to a vocation.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining.
Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Selevercin wrote:
although there is a high starting salary, there is not much room to go.
Well, I don't know, looks like I make 3 times more than what I was making like 4 years ago...
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I'm a high school guy who enjoys programming immensely, however I have heard that, although there is a high starting salary, there is not much room to go. I'm not at all trying to be rude, but what do you guys make yearly (in dollars)? I'm just trying to decide if its a profession that can support me later in life.
Salaries vary a lot depending on countries, programming knowledge, languages, position, ...  I have a much better salary now in Ireland than I had previously in France, but everything is way more expensive, so I don't have as much money to spare as I had 
I'd say that whatever position you will have, programming gives salary high enough to support a decent life (depending on what you call a decent life of course ), and sometimes a very good life (but don't hope for that at the very beginning  ).
Computers have enabled people to make more mistakes faster than almost any invention in history, with the possible exception of tequila and hand guns.
- Carl Gundlach
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Well...
Even with a MCSD, MCSE, MCDBA and an MCT certification my salary still s**ckz. Of course... I live in Brazil, where salarys tend to be lower than the rest of the world. The thing I learned from my experience is that if you want to make a LOT of money from programming you must REAALLY good. Maybe I´ll open up a restaurant when I get bored of this IT stuff...
Mauricio Ritter - Brazil
Sonorking now: 100.13560 Trank
![Beer | [beer]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/beer.gif) The alcohol is one of the greatest enemys of man, but a man who flee from his enemys is a coward.
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I don't think programmer's salary is tooooo bad in Brazil. I don`t have any certification and my salary is better then 80% of my family. And I'm just 22. It's not to hard to find a project with R$ 27,00/h. Detail: If you know VC and lives in São Paulo.
Rodrigo Strauss
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Rodrigo Strauss wrote:
and lives in São Paulo
hmmm.... maybe its time to move. The avarage salary at Porto Alegre is completly lower than São Paulo.
Mauricio Ritter - Brazil
Sonorking now: 100.13560 Trank
The alcohol is one of the greatest enemys of man, but a man who flee from his enemys is a coward.
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Rodrigo Strauss wrote:
It's not to hard to find a project with R$ 27,00/h.
Well, with the current US$/BRR value that isnt too much if you do projects for brazilian companies from outside the country 
Anyway, if you compare life costs and income then Brazil is definitely the country to go for a programmer.
int x=1, y=5;
x^=y^=x^=y;
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You're right. Today US$ 1,00 = R$ ~3,00. But the life cost in Brazil is low. And if live in São Paulo you have the infrastructure of the 3rd biggest city of the world (http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/bigcities.htm)
Rodrigo Strauss
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Guys in Argentina the situation is the same, but here 1 US$ = 3.6 A$....
Here the coast oflife is low if I compare with USA, for example. But my secret is make projects for companys in others countrys, like USA, The company pay very well in Dollars and I can save a lot of mony. For other side I am starting my own company in other Country, the idea of my associated is make the commercial bussines in USA, and develop in Argentina. The cost of the development is three times chepper, for the American, or European people... 
Best Regards
Carlos Antollini.
Sonork ID 100.10529 cantollini
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Hell, our currency (the Rand) is currently $1 : R10.50, and this pretty much makes it impossible to just go for a holiday to Redmond or anything.
Having said that, I'm probably still gonna go next year.
Just have to start saving right now!
Cheers,
Simon
"Sign up for a chance to be among the first to experience the wrath of the gods.", Microsoft's home page (24/06/2002)
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There are a lot of factors that will determine the salary that you can earn as a developer. I think that you can make a very comfortable living as a developer especially if you are good at what you do.
I would suggest learning a broad range of languages, but I would also suggest that you become very proficient in at least one or two areas.
Stock options are another thing that is often offered, and while now is not the best economy to trade on the stock market, stock options can well make it worth your time and effort at a company.
Depending on your experience, I think that you can expect to make between $50,000 - 100,000$ USD / yr with a few years of experience and a degree.
Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day
Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life!
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First I really agree with the comments that you have to love what you are doing.
Right now where I am starting salaries stink. To many in the telecom industry out of work. I know one who was making 160,000 last year is teaching Jr. High for 32,000 now. He was higher than a typical company job, very smooth talker and worked contracts well.
Also most that are doing well also know something other than progamming. I.E. what they are supporting with their programing.
To be conscious that you are ignorant of the facts is a great step towards Knowledge. Benjamin Disraeli
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I would say work for a number of companies, and then when you get sick of that, and when the timing is right, start your own software outfit on the internet. Hehe at least that's what I did . Working for someone tends to drag you down in the long run, as you are always doing what THEY want to do, not what YOU want to do... But I guess that's not for everyone.
cheers,
Swine
Check out Aephid Photokeeper, the powerful digital
photo album solution at www.aephid.com.
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It really depends where you are located, the market really varies, especially after the fall of the telecoms. I love programming and used to make a good living out it, but it was very hard to get a foot in the door, even with a batchelor's from a good school. Some advice I would give kids today going to college and deciding on a computer science major, don't put all your educational eggs in one basket. Try and get a minor in something else as well, like business etc. I went into college assuming that computers would always be a solid field in terms of finding and keeping employment, and making good money. I only wish I had some other background to fall back on. Be versatile, etc.
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I for one would not ask a pro!
From my experience they don't know sh!t about the IT industry!  
I got my current job through my local newspaper, if I had to get another I would go through an agency. It seems the only way to get people over here in the UK.
Roger Allen
Sonork 100.10016
If I had a quote, it would be a very good one.
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Roger Allen wrote:
From my experience they don't know sh!t about the IT industry!
That could be true, however they might know a lot of people and can pass contacts to your future bosses to you (or yours to them).
Can you describe your experience with prostitutes in more details? 
Martin
--------------------------------------------
C'mon we all know computers are experimental devices and should only be used for playing games.
Using them for alternative stuff like business, is clearly not using them for what they are intended.
Colin Davies
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Martin Ziacek wrote:
Can you describe your experience with prostitutes in more details?
When I lived in Manchester on my year out, there was a red light district, which I had to walk through to get to a pinball arcade that I liked to visit (I am a pinball fiend), and I used to get offers for "Business" when walking through. I was a very poor and shy student, so I stayed away.
They never once asked me about computers or IT in general.
Roger Allen
Sonork 100.10016
If I had a quote, it would be a very good one.
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Hehe, I expected something more interesting
Martin
--------------------------------------------
C'mon we all know computers are experimental devices and should only be used for playing games.
Using them for alternative stuff like business, is clearly not using them for what they are intended.
Colin Davies
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I am keeping the more juicy stories secret, I don't want to ruin my reputation! 
Roger Allen
Sonork 100.10016
If I had a quote, it would be a very good one.
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Post them anonymously in the Soapbox please.
Martin
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"Can you fix my floppy drive" would probably have gotten you
You don't need to sleep to see a nightmare Anne Clark [sighist]
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... but I've only gotten good jobs through word-of-mouth.
The online searches let you know what kind of jobs are available in a given area, but most of the listings are really outdated. "Oh, you're interested in the programmer's job. We filled that position 3 months ago." The other problem is for the employer. They have to filter the online submissions. A few months ago, we posted a position on www.monster.com[^]. We received over 250 resumes, most of which did not match the job description at all. Our H.R. department spent two days whittling the list down to 20 resumes.
Headhunters call with jobs you don't want. It seems that, for technical jobs, the headhunters get called when the employers can't find anybody stupid motivated enough to take the position (the infamous 70 hr a week jobs).
Contacting employers directly is luck of the draw. Unless you have an inside contact, who knows how to work the human resources department, your resume goes into the stack, where it sits forever.
After over 20 years as a programmer, word of mouth seems to work the best. My current day job and my consulting position were both the result of contacts with friends.
"Think of it as evolution in action." - 'Oath of Fealty' by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle
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I don't know about the rest of the world, but recruitment agencies in SA normally charge the company 30% of the successful applicants salary for the year.
Now, that's WAY to much.
From my experience, these ppl don't do sh!t. They've probably got some Access 97 app that they run a query on and voila!
Cheers,
Simon
"Sign up for a chance to be among the first to experience the wrath of the gods.", Microsoft's home page (24/06/2002)
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It is almost the same in the UK, but I would say even worse - recruitment agents seem to have no idea what they are doing. I have been looking for a new job for about 3 months now and I can only say recruitment agencies are the biggest rubbish I have ever seen.
Martin
--------------------------------------------
C'mon we all know computers are experimental devices and should only be used for playing games.
Using them for alternative stuff like business, is clearly not using them for what they are intended.
Colin Davies
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