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1. Programers don't have respect for someone who isn't great coder...
2. You can't manage team good if you go too deep into coding...
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Others can't stand a micro-managing control freak.
I was one.. But we still got along..
No drinking at work but a few beers at lunch I payed for helped me ALOT.. They let it all out..
Many knew more than I did.. I'd never tell them that! I learned as they did and we both were richer in knowledge..
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In my experience, it is not possible to code and to manage the same time. When the boss is trying this, then there is no coding and no managing.
When the boss is able to program in VB6 or Delphy, he is then a pain in the a** when we try to implement something in C#.
Wim
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In my experience, it is not possible to code and to manage the same time.
Not true.. I had a GREAT programmer from wherever.. Not from the USA.. He left to work for the US developing weapons systems.. HE WAS SMART.. He left my company and got a GOOD JOB... LOL.. He hardly spoke any English.. OK by me (My Native Language and still working on it).. Anyway, It was sort of a Joke. I'm sure he knew it was.. I think?
He would code in machine language what we told/asked him to do for the project.. A week later I'd go back and tell him.. NICE work but a 'BIT' to much code for what you are doing.. Every weak the code would get a bit smaller..
When he finally said.. 'ALL I can do to this..' I told him to get a Better Job! I will recommend You!
Not all Bosses are what you think.. Some REALLY hard on you.. But just want you to do 'Your Thing to the best"
Modify.. By the way I HATE WAR.. I was in one.. Just that he was good at what he did..
-- modified at 14:08 Sunday 2nd April, 2006
Every weak ?? Week? I told you I was still working on my English!
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The question is not whether a "boss" (Project Manager) should have coding experience. The question is whether he should be doing both at the same time.
The reason I mention IT Project Manager specifically is because you probably won't see many CIO's coding.
I think everyone would agree that a Project Manager with coding and/or software architecture background and experience is invaluable for a team.
However, to have your Project Manager self-impose the same coding deadlines as a fellow team member drastically decreases his ability to manage, help and generally be available to teammates when it is sorely needed.
I believe, and this is solely a personal belief, that an IT Project Manager should have a lot of experience in coding to understand the process and mentality of a coder, but also the ability to bring his team together cohesively to produce a problem solving product.
His ability to do both doesn't mean that he should.
Kevin Pannell
-- modified at 13:19 Saturday 1st April, 2006
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I was the victim of a drive-by coding.
The president of the company I worked for was also one of the key programmers. The disaster was that he needed to manage the company, he needed to manage the programmers, and he needed to write code. The result was that he did *none* of these well, and more and more was making short-term corporate decisions designed to optimize his coding time, not deal with the long-term issues of product development schedules, quality, or testing.
I've been a manager. While I was a manager I did no coding, because I needed all my attention focused on managing well. It was a deliberate decision based on my past experience with managers who program. The result was that I became a really great third-rate manager (with aspirations to becoming a mediocre second-rate manager). There was virutally no career path in industry for first-rate technologists who want to remain first-rate technologists, and consequently I became self-employed, where I could exploit my technical skills and avoid management entirely.
(My assessment: as a middle-manager, your first and most important responsibility is to protect the people who work for you from all the s**t coming down from above [low budgets, unrealistic deadlines, changing specifications, etc.]. Your second most important responsibility is to protect the people who pay you from all the s**t coming up from below [missing deadlines, poor product quality, etc.]. And where, exactly, does this leave you? Right in the middle of a lot of s**t. I decided that I did not want to spend the rest of my life there. I actually *enjoy* coding, and I saw no long-term future as an employee of any mid-to-large company, and no pay in the smaller companies, except as self-employed, which I have been for 19 years now)
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In 11+ years, every programmer I've worked with who's been promoted to manager has said "I'm going to continue coding"... then they never do. They have enough time to help the devs out with design/coding problems (if it doesn't coincide with yet another @#*%~! meeting), but not one has ever continued to do his own dev work.
--Mike--
Visual C++ MVP
LINKS~! Ericahist | NEW!! PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ
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A boss sould have experience in coding so he can know about what he is managing. But he must have the full time to take decisions. An alternative to that is a intermediate who codes and manages at the same time, but he cannot be a decision maker, just a consultant to the real boss.
If boss means project manager, than he sould do both things at the same time.
SkullKiller
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Well, I've had Bosses that had no damn idea on development or maybe some theoretical knowledge in another language than the one used. It sucks, if you have to describe every little crap in order to get him (more or less) able to make a decision.
Strength in the Face of Adversity
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My boss has been developing software for more years then I've been alive, and that can be a great benefit. He understands how complex things can be, and can offer a great deal of support and a fresh aproach to difficult challenges.
The downside is that he isn't used to modern software development processes, and doesn't seem to understand the very high standards that users expect, preferring to quickly "bodge" things (which in the end can lead to a more expensive development cycle). Plus he's a old FORTRAN boy, the amount of time I waste trying to explain OO... sigh.
It all depends on the boss, it can be a great idea, but it can have it downsides too.
- Dy
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Always depends... i had a boss who really helps in the programming, but in general is a bad idea have a task list in programming; a boss should wath and control the development an help in the "real problems", that could be harder.
__
jjlopez
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Of course the boss must be an experienced programmer.He must also be active, because programming changes so quickly, if he/she isn't active they'll be out of date in only a year. This is a hard guy/girl to find because they have to have the discipline to spend on managing and not get sucked into 48 hour code-sessions.
m2
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Here is a better question...
How many PhD students do coding for their advisors?
All of them...why? Because an advisor (boss) realizes that the student is the labor force and they are the thinkers.
And professor also stay on top of current technologies...without getting their hands dirty.
Bosses that play both roles run the risk of being over-stressed very fast thus resulting in not just poor performance in coding, but poor managing.
So, no. It isn't a good idea. Look at academics, the model has been there a long long time.
B
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Hey man ... how do you think I learned to code (Fortran IV at the time, 1972)on an IBM card punch. It's not as simple as you infer. And to be frank, thinking is more important than coding (I hope most of us know that by now).
(If you're interested, I did my my Ph. D. in High Energy Particle Physics, Brookhaven National Labs in the mid 70's. Programming is a tool, just like weilding a chain-saw, and sometimes more impressive.)
My point is this, and it IS indeed a paradox: Programming is a technology and an "art" ... it is also a very volatile subject matter. Over the last 30 years, I've seen the landscape change from FORTRAN IV, Assembly (various now obsolete machines from CDC7600, IBM-360, Honeywell DDP516, F8 to 8080), even microcode (2910 based slice machines), RATFOR, C, Pascal, C++ and SIMD ... now the palete grows. OLE, COM, ATL ... dotNET ... try to keep up. If you stop programming ... you're out of date in 12 months.
SW "manager" or "boss" should really be a rotating responsibility. In fact for another reason than I've evoked so far. Managers ... pure managers of SW burn out in about the same time it takes them to get out-of-date. You know ... it sounds at bit Communist, which I'm not at all ... but it's like washing the dishes. Everyone should get their chance.
Anyway, I don't believe in academics.
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I would much rather have someone who keeps his fingers and mind up to date than someone who hasn't programmed for years (or ever).
How can someone who isn't experienced in programming practice be expected to manage programmers???
Also though - promoting good programmers to be bad managers is another bad option. This seems to happen all too frequently.
Dale Thompson
-- modified at 17:03 Wednesday 29th March, 2006
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Ideally, a good manager should also was a good (or average) programmer. But that is only happening in ideal world.
Sonork 100.41263:Anthony_Yio
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The worst possible option - manager with no programming experience!
WRONG.. I worked for a VP.. A WOMAN! Yes.. She had NO idea what a program was except that I did something with it... LOL.. She was GREAT! No nonsence.. If ya screw up.. Oh well...
I was and still am sort of touch with programming.. LOL.. I do it but just for fun.. I always expected my workers to do it RIGHT.. I just had enought sense to run the program and see if it 'Works for me!'
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"The boss" is something different in different companies/institutions.
As is the project structure.
So neither 'yes' nor 'no' for me.
As a side note - my boss is an ex-programmer with a faible for very outdated technology (statically linked MFC to escape the hell of DLL/COM)
The product manager who sets the requirements is not a software guy.
"We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we would be reorganised. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganising: and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress, while producing confusion, inefficiency and demoralisation."
-- Caius Petronius, Roman Consul, 66 A.D.
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Just wait for there to be 5 different versions of .NET out there, and your fun will REALLY begin
People that start writing code immediately are programmers (or hackers), people that ask questions first are Software Engineers - Graham Shanks
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Not a good idea that they (bossfella) be an active coder. Best if they were once a developer. We've all seen the pain when the boss is not a former developer or a wannabe.
A former developer will be familliar and versant in the issues and involved deeply enough in the project to be able to represent the issues to the 'higherups' and to moderate any ramifications that may result.
In effect, they are a qualified representative for the development team. After all, wouldn't you feel better knowing that one of your own was backing you at the management level?
B
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I agree. An active coder (boss) can get too far into the weeds and shirk off their responsibilty of being a buffer to the Project/Program Manager for project status. A good "boss" is one who does know how to code, but is also aware of their responsibility to guiding the other programmers to a viable solution.
The reason why a poor man will always be poor and the rich man will always be rich, is because the poor man will always maximize his expenditures and the rich man will always maximize his potential. --T.Parker
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Project/Program Manager
I was one.. I think they just made me that to have somebody to blame things on...
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If I'm the boss it's good, if I'm not it's bad, very bad.
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A boss that writes codes with a dev team is a good idea,it protects us from clients changing their mind asking for features that was never there also keeps the team more focused on the product. But it also makes him more aware of who is catching on sh*it all the team writing bad code ect... well i think thats a badie if u ask me.
J2ME / C# developer South African Developer from cape town
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Yes, it's a good idea if he is a good programmer. My boss writes an awful, unmanaged and unflexible code that I often
understand hard.
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