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Greetings,
After an updating to the last release (6.9.4), I noticed that all the "estimated time fields" for done tasks are no longer displayed.
Moreover, the sum of estimated time for a parent task excludes now the subtasks which were completed.
I tried to check different options, but I didn't find the right way to display every time the complete sum of estimated time even if a parent task is completed.
I'm sure I missed something easy but now I'm a bit lost.
Thanks for your help.
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Try turning off "Preferences > Tasks > Attribute Calculations > Take a task's '% completion' into account when calculating time estimates".
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It's amazing that this question comes up at the same time that I have a similar situation.
I'm now producing reports for estimates with TDL, selecting one or more primary tasks (projects) and running them through a transform. (I gave Dan the XSL for inclusion in the app.) All tasks being estimated get status "In Planning". When approved they go to "Not Started", then "In Progress", "Need Info", "Complete", and a couple others along the way.
Now, when a client decides that I should not work on a specific sub-task, I'll flag that with status "Not Needed". But it still has an estimate which is rolled into the parent(s) aggregate total.
I'd like a way to retain the estimate, but not have it aggregated up the chain. Even if I filter the tasks and reload the list, the calculated aggregate total includes tasks that have been filtered out.
Maybe that's the request: Can we get the totals to reflect only those tasks which are in the currently filtered/visible set? The only current option that I can think of is to remove a task, moving it to another task tree that has "stuff we won't be doing".
This could apply to actual time spent too, and costs. What if I just want to see actual time for tasks that have been assigned to a specific person? Or estimates and actuals for tasks within a specific time range? Or the cost for Completed tasks?
There are a Lot of applications for this.
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I am currently struggling with a related reporting requirement. My requirements differ slightly, and I am currently not using TDL for this function.
I need to report on my projects on a monthly basis, specifically, project name, deadline/milestones, time done last month, and time planned next month . The challenges are:
- I don't tend to use the timer, and plan time and log time in a dairy for the hours in a day (visual, always available and easier for me to drive)
- I effectively log time against the project, not the sub-tasks
- The project task items can be at any level in the tree, and are identified by the Tag value "project"
- At the start of the month, I list the projects to be worked on, and estimate the amount of time I am planning to spend on the project that month (Excel sheet, informed by TDL).
-- Ideally I could log this info against the projects in TDL. I have set up a custom attribute for this, but haven't started using it. It would need to be cleared each month in preparation for the next month(losing history).
- At the end of the month (at a minimum), I add the hours spent on each project to the spreadsheet, and sum.
-- Ideally this could be entered into TDL, and only the hours spent last month reported (rather than total time elapsed since the start of the project).
-- Again, I have set up a custom attribute for this, but haven't started using it.
Any ideas on how to do this better using TDL would be appreciated.
Functionality-wise, to make this happen, I guess you would need to time stamp each time entry when added, and be able to select the time range for the time entries you wish to report on.
zajchapp
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Not using the timer doesn't have to mean not using the log file to track time spent.
So, instead of directly adding time to a 'project' task's time spent, use 'Edit > Other Task Attributes > Add Time to Task Log File' which will also update the time spent field if you want it to.
Then you can use 'Tools > Analyse Logged Time' to produce a summary of time spent during a specific calendar period.
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Many thanks Dan. I haven't used this functionality, and will try to explore it this weekend. It looks as though this could help.
Am I correct in thinking this feature doesn't handle estimated time (i.e. there are no options for which attributes are sent to the log file)?
zajchapp
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Had a play last night.
The ability to adjust the time spent field via the dialog is great. I did notice the log doesn't get an entry against it if you add a time increment directly via the appropriate field in the edit bar. In case it is buried, I did ask a further question on creating a user tool for a menu item here: ToDoList 6.9.4 - An effective and flexible way to keep on top of your tasks[^].
The analyse logged time is also great, although I am not yet sure how I can use it for my purposes. Given my need to combine the time spent analysis with the estimated time, I may need to either keep the analysis manual, or develop a system of filtering, sorting and exporting via a stylesheet. Wish my boss wasn't quite so detail and forward resource planning focussed...
I think I will need to use a custom attribute 'time estimate next month' to report on, so this wouldn't work in any standard reporting or analysis anyway.
A minor visual thing is that all zero values are shown for a numeric custom attribute (relates to a recent thread on version number here: ToDoList 6.9.4 - An effective and flexible way to keep on top of your tasks[^])
zajchapp
modified 5-Feb-15 16:31pm.
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zajchapp wrote: Given my need to combine the time spent analysis with the estimated time The analysis produces either an XML or CSV output, because I intended this functionality not to produce the final report but rather to assist in producing the final report.
Also, I particularly need feedback from longer-term users (like you) on this feature in order to help me develop it into something that can meet many people's needs.
For instance, the analysis currently only processes the log file for its input, but I originally anticipated retrieving further information from the taskfile itself, which could include the estimated time or any other attribute(s).
So if you could have a think about what additional features would give you the output you need for your reports, then I can figure out how to turn that into a more generic solution.
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Thinking aloud...
I've posted a couple times about my own need for recording different kinds of time as well. There's total actual time, and billable actual time. There are comments for the task, comments for the client, and per-event notes that clients might want to see in detail. @Zajchapp is talking about estimate vs actual time for a specific period.
Given the variety of possible requirements I suspect this functionality will simply never get to a point where one size will fit all. It would need to be highly versatile, where we have an array of time values, we can apply time to any of these manually or with a clock (simultaneously), the metadata associated with an event is different for each type, and for analysis we can have a selection of data aggregated from the log and the tasklist. The final result would be what we have now, which is an XML or CSV which can be reformatted into a user/site-specific report. I really think that's where this is all going - or at least where it should go in order to satisfy the kinds of requests that we've seen so far and that we're likely to see in the future. The problem is that it's a huge imposition on Dan to make it happen.
I pains me to say that I really think all of this can now be done with the library, fairly easily too, but I still haven't had time to publish the first version. I sincerely apologize to all who have been patiently waiting for this. I just need to finish some final bits before I can publish a beta. I really think this is our collective ticket to getting so many of these things that we all want.
That said, both TDL and the library are FOSS, the code is available but it still takes "someone" to write code around it to get these cool features. For Dan, his motivation is simply to create a fine product for himself and others, and he just needs time. For me, for now I can only be motivated to take time from client projects by working on something else that will generate revenue. So while I and I'm sure others here have skills to use the tools to create the solutions, I think the real unstated stumbling block on all of this is "but we want it for free". If there's some way to balance that out just a little bit, to motivate developers who have skills to supply solutions to those who would use them for their own business needs, then I'm sure we'd see a lot more development associated with this fine software.
Over time I hope to create a collection of third-party products which integrate with ToDoList, some for free and some for-fee. And we're so close to getting there. It just takes time, and it would help to know there will be some demand for this, uh, the for-fee stuff especially, when it starts to become available.
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In regard to feedback, I haven't used this functionality before, as I haven't been analysing or reporting my time for a few years. There is always the balance of the amount of effort to monitor the time vs the benefit of doing the analysis.
My query was really trying to determine which features I might be able to use, rather than asking for anything new. Your thoughts on retrieving further attribute information from the taskfile would be a very useful addition though, and would greatly enhance the analysis abilities.
As it stands, I think I can do what needs to be done, but it will require either manual processing, or some coding in excel. The issue is that I will need to combine information from the log analysis and the tasklist. For instance reporting on the tasks that had estimated time against them, but were never done (and hence won't appear in the log). This is all doable.
Overall I have 2 uses for the logging functionality. The one already described, and the other analysing time spent by category (e.g. project, meeting, HR, etc...). This would involve summing times from different parts of the tree by an attribute e.g. category or tag).
But I also agree with @iamstarbuck in that this functionality would need to be very sophisticated to meet everyones needs. The question is whether this is core to TDL, and whether it is something that can be achieved in other ways.
zajchapp
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zajchapp wrote: I think I can do what needs to be done, but it will require either manual processing, or some coding in excel. The issue is that I will need to combine information from the log analysis and the tasklist. I think this is exactly what prompted me to write the library. While we have some data in the csv log, I wanted more data from the tasklist to put the log data in context. This required custom code, more Excel sheets, formulas, etc. I didn't want to have to do that kind of thing in Excel every time I had a new requirement, so I decided to start writing a library that would make it easier to access the database. It just grew from there.
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Greetings,
Your solution seems to no longer work with the latest version I downloaded (7.0.5).
Even with the box checked, the estimation total does not take into account the sum of the estimated tasks which are completed.
By the way, the informations at bottom of the window seem also be false, indicating no estimated time if a task is completed.
I link a test screenshot for better illustration.
Thanks for your feedback.
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Manifestly, I have been a bit muddled.
In fact, the right setting is to not check the box in question.
However, the rendering is correct with my older version (6.8.10) but not with the new (7.0.5), even by reproducing exactly the same settings.
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Problem exists only when I choose my local language (russian) in options.
When in "Time spent" control I start typing numbers from 1 to 9 - the numbers 3 and 4 swith measurement to years and days respectively and don't appear in field. Othen numbers are ok.
Paste this numbers from notepad are also ok.
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Strange - confirmed for "Russian". Does not happen with German, Slovak, French.
Pierre
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Андрей Андреич wrote: When in "Time spent"
This affects 'Time Spent' column as well.. It looks like the keys standing for '3' and '4' are kind of binded, just a wild guess.
Added..
Thanks to your post I discovered new shorcuts for these fields
So, there are shortkeys for fast changing of values in English (pressed W key changes the value to Weeks, Y key - to Years, etc).
When it comes to other languages, for example, Spanish, the same keys (M, H, D, W, Y) change all the same values (example: if W key is pressed the value is changed to (S)emanas (weeks), although the first letter is still displayed as W, not S (possibly, due to not complete translation).
If we take German, everything is perfect: M, H, D, W, Y keys stand for S, T, W, M, J (perfectly displayed and changed, f.i. when J key is pressed, the value changes to J(ahre) (Year).
Ok, when we speak about Russian, some values are misplaced ('3' stands for 'ч' (Hours) and 'г' (Years), '4' - for 'д' (Days), '=' - for 'д' (Weeks), 'G' - for 'ч' (Hours)..
Alex
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mugrrrr wrote: Thanks to your post I discovered new shorcuts for these fields
Thanks - new for me too
Pierre
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Thx for analysis Alex, though I need more help to reproduce this.
In addition to using the Russian translation do I meed to reconfigure my keyboard and regional settings?
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.dan.g. wrote: In addition to using the Russian translation do I meed to reconfigure my keyboard and regional settings?
I don't think so. I ran a new test with clean TDL installation on Win8.1/64, English version and keyboard layout, the result is the same.
My steps:
1. Unzip the program
2. Start it with the default parameters
3. Open Introduction.tdl
4. Press '3' and '4' keys ('y' and 'm')
4. Change language to Russian
5. Press '3' and '4' keys ('=')
6. See the results
P.S.
1) By the way, when I press 'x', 'c' and 'v' keys it shows ',' symbol whichever interface language is selected, English or Russian, with English keyboard layout.
2) When I press 'x' and 'v' keys it changes from Hours view ('x' key pressed) to Minutes view ('b' key pressed) whichever interface language is selected, English or Russian, with Russian keyboard layout.
Anyway, if you want me to do more research, you are more than welcome
P.P.S.
Definitely it can be a translation-related problem. I just replaced the current translation file with the one from TDL ver.6.8.10, it has no problem of such a kind. Need some more time to dig in deeper though..
Alex
modified 7-Feb-15 2:53am.
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Thank you all for testing and fixing!
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Looking at the menu compared to the shortcuts the section "Other task attributes" shows two differences:
- "Edit Log File" is missing (BTW: I thought because of the new read-only "edit" was changed to "Display"?)
- The last entry has different strings.
See screenshot (in German, but English is the same ..):
Pierre
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Hi Peter
I haven't looked closely at this yet, but some of what you are seeing may be due to the dynamic modification of the main menu that occurs at runtime depending on the selected task or whether the preference to hide invisible attribute menu items is enabled.
Nevertheless, I will investigate this in more detail. Thx for the screenshot.
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"View Task Log File" is under Tools. Is that what you were looking for?
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Yes, thanks. In the meantime everything is clear now.
Pierre
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