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I decided to use TDL for GTD for the following reasons:
1. Most importantly, it is fast and nimble. After years of Outlook and other bloated apps, it is such a pleasure to be able to move around my whole task list so quickly and easily.
2. Can run it from a single directory, so it is easily portable and I don't have to have administrator privledges (shh, don't tell the IT department).
3. Easily portable on USB drive from Work computer to Work Laptop to Home Desktop to Home Laptop.
4. The tree structure. There are other apps that do this, I guess, but this is the best one that I've used.
5. Everything is on one screen: the task information is all on one line, with all the change boxes right below the lists and the notes pane right there as well. There is nothing that you have to double-click to open or modify.
6. The ability to quickly select a bunch of non-contiguous tasks and modify a column or two is a huge help. Say I want to change any task assigned to Jessica--all I have to do is cntl-F, pick allocated by, then select all to make the change in all the tasks.
7. It seems to take very few steps to do everything, and you can assign hotkeys to most of the actions. Moving tasks around, promoting and demoting them, is very easy.
8. It is very customizable, with lots of options for rolling up task completion percentages, changing colors, filtering, etc.
9. Having task dependencies from 4.8 is a real plus that I’m very excited about.
10. The allocated to and by are things I use a lot.
11. dan.g. One of the biggest pluses is that the application is continually being improved and kinks worked out. It is very well supported and any problems are quickly resolved. There will be lots of new features to play with but it seems obvious from the history that the app won’t become bloated.
Things that would help with GTD:
1. The most important thing for me is to have an option to see a list of all tasks that don’t have any subtask (listed without the parent tasks). That would be a list of things that you actually have to do (“next-actions” or NAs in GTD terms).
2. Pop-up reminders would be a great enhancement, especially if they could be not only date specific, but also time specific. This would be separate from the due date.
3. A lot of GTD people will want separate columns for context of the next action (where the action takes place—like at the computer, on the phone, at home, at the office). I handle this in the Category column currently, but a lot of people will want to use this for real categories.
4. As mentioned before, combining a range of attributes to produce a weighted average for producing a master priority list would be a great feature.
5. I would like a way to import my TDL into my Palm. It doesn’t have to be anything fancy—I think that the CSV export you put on the list for 4.8 will work fine for me. I will use the CSV export file and import it into Palm Mobile DB. The CSV file would be easier to use if you could specify what columns to import (not just the shown columns or all columns)
6. Would it be possible to add “Above Risk” as an option on the Filter Bar at the top? I would love to be able to filter on this.
I’ll add other things as I think of them.
Thanks for the great program and for being so open to different suggestions!
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I'll second this:
"4. As mentioned before, combining a range of attributes to produce a weighted average for producing a master priority list would be a great feature. "
I can't see how the todolist is usable for people with a large number of conflicting tasks and priorities, because it requires you to balance the priorities yourself between tasks. The advantage of programs like MLO is they can help you juggle priorities by calculating them for you based on due dates, urgency and importance (+other) factors
to implement this would require some extra fields adding, and an algorithm (if you look on the MLO google group and/or the MLO help file its discussed how the prioritization algorithm works)
-- modified at 19:42 Friday 24th March, 2006
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scoobiesnacks wrote: I can't see how the todolist is usable for people with a large number of conflicting tasks and priorities
actually, i think that the human brain is remarkably good at prioritizing if it has sufficient information to work with. indeed no-one in the past 2 years (until now) has requested such a feature.
scoobiesnacks wrote: The advantage of programs like MLO
unfortunately their strength is also their principal weakness. calculating a priority based on only 2/3 numerical attributes is okay when it's helping to decide between shopping and the gym, but for people who use many of the text based fields it's woefully inadequate. i'm for the idea in principle but only if we can come up with a system that encapsulates as much of the real-life complexity of making decisions.
.dan.g.
AbstractSpoon Software
abstractspoon2_at_optusnet_dot_com_dot_au
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.dan.g. wrote: i'm for the idea in principle but only if we can come up with a system that encapsulates as much of the real-life complexity of making decisions.
That would be great if we could have such a feature. Here's some thoughts on how it would work...
I agree on your real life complexity point, I think this has heavily thought through in the approach MLO finally settled on. Like your program, the approach developed through the user group discussion as to how if should work in practice. I'd advocate having a play with MLO to get a feel for how this works in practice
MLO has two main options, which I suspect developed out of people's different approaches to how they wanted to prioritise their tasks:
Approach (1) Hierarchical, (sorted by goal deadline, by importance, by date, and by depth in the tree)
Approach (2) Computed score (computed recursive score throughout the outline based on importance and urgency slider settings)
Note: When you set the priority of a task in most To Do programs you actually set the absolute priority that compares it to the other tasks in the list. In MLO, however, you only consider how important it is to complete the task relative to completing the parent project.
Understanding To-Do List Ordering
After you have entered all your goals, projects, and tasks into the Outline, MyLife Organized can select only those tasks which require immediate attention and place them to the To-Do List. The scheduled tasks appear in the list only at the most suitable time. You can filter the To-Do list by setting the appropriate place/situation. Each time you complete a task the To-Do list is regenerated to keep it updated and right ordered.
Sorting of the To-Do List depends on the parameters you set. Depending on your level of commitment to time management you have two options:
1. Hierarchical Priority. Use this if do not plan on being particularly accurate about setting task options. You will notice that with hierarchical priority there's no urgency in the task options. This is the simple way to get started with MyLife Organized.
2. Computed-Score Priority is the more advanced option, and you will get excellent results if you take the time to configure the tasks more or less correctly. You will find that MyLife Organized will do an excellent job in presenting to you to-do lists that are sensibly prioritized.
"More Details on Hierarchical Priority
Introduction
Suppose that you have two projects, Prj1 and Prj2, in the root of your MLO outline, and that each task has one subtask p1 and p2, respectively. In this case, only tasks p1 and p2 will be shown in the To-Do List. How will they be ordered in the list? It depends on the tasks' parameters.
1. Weekly Goal
Any task marked as a Weekly Goal is always placed at the top of the To-Do List, regardless of how its other parameters are set. This is one way you can quickly highlight a task and bring it to the top of the list for your attention.
2. Task Importance
2.1. If project Prj1 is assigned a higher importance then project Prj2, subtask p1 is always placed at the top of the To-Do List, regardless of the importance of subtasks p1 and p2. This is because you have specified that the entire Prj1 project is more important than the other projects. As a result, all of its subtasks will have a higher priority then subtasks of other projects on the same level which have a lower priority than Prj1.
Note that when you set the priority of a task in most other To-Do programs, you actually set an absolute priority in comparison to all other tasks in the list. In MyLife, however, you should only consider how important it is to complete the task relative to completing its parent project. Thus, for example, when you assign p1 an importance, you should only think about its actual importance to accomplishing project Prj1, not its absolute importance.
2.2. If projects Prj1 and Prj2 have the same importance, the subtask that is assigned a higher importance is placed at the top of the list. Thus, if P2 has a higher importance for project Prj2 than P1 has for project Prj1, P2 will precede P1 in the To-Do List.
Note: The Importance parameter is considered only after the Weekly Goal parameter has been considered.
3. Time
If you set a deadline for a task, the closer the deadline to today's date, the higher this task will be in the To-Do List. Thus, if you set deadlines for both p1 and p2 and the p2 deadline is closer, P2 will precede P1 in the To-Do List.
Please note that since Importance is considered before Time, preference is given to how important tasks are, rather than when they are scheduled. This helps you to stay focused on the most important tasks, to separate importance from urgency, and to overcome procrastination.
Note: The Time parameter is considered after Weekly Goals and Importance are considered.
4. Project Completion Percentage
The closer a project is to being complete, the higher its subtasks are placed in the To-Do List.
Suppose that, in additional to p1 and p2, you have additional subtasks for projects Prj1 and Prj2 (p11 and p22, respectively). Assume also that task p22 is completed but all other subtasks of both projects are incomplete, and that all other parameters (Weekly Goal, Importance, and Time) are the same for Prj1 and Prj2. In this case, subtask p2 will receive a higher placement in the To-Do List because project Prj2 is closer to completion than is Prj1 (by completing only one task, p2, you will finish project Prj2). In comparison, to complete project Prj1 you will need to complete both p1 and p11.
Note: The Completion parameter is considered after Weekly Goals, Importance, and Time have been considered.
For a more complex example, please see the Web page.
In summary, here is the order in which task parameters are considered in determining a task's position in To-Do List:
1) Weekly Goal
2) Importance
3) Time
4) Project Completion Percentage
Option 2:
More Details on Computed-Score Priority
Computed-Score Priority mode uses the details you supply about each task to compute an individual score for each task in your outline. These scores are then used to provide a priority-ordered To-Do List. The two factors that contribute to each task's score are its Importance and its Urgency. The To-Do List will include tasks that have no uncompleted children tasks, ordered by their Computed-Score Priorities.
MLO can be configured to order tasks by just Importance, just Urgency, or a combination of both.
Importance Slider
The absolute importance of each task is a computed value and is not directly set by the user. Instead, for each task you set the importance of that task relative to its immediate parent. Once you have done that, the program will compute the task's actual importance. A task's importance to its parent is controlled by a slider and its ranges from 0 to 1.
Suppose that you have two projects in the root of the MyLife outline (Prj1 and Prj2), and that each of them has one subtask (p1 and p2, respectively. The importance of each task will be calculated as follows:
Computed actual importance of p1 =(Prj1 Importance to outline) * (p1 Importance to Prj1)
Computed actual importance of p2 =(Prj2 Importance to outline) * (p2 Importance to Prj2)
For example, if the importance values are set as follows:
Prj1 = 1, Prj2 = .75, p1 = .45, p2 = 1
then these tasks' computed importance scores will be as follows:
Prj1 = 1
Prj2 = .75
p1 = 1 *.45 = .45
p2 = .75 * 1 = .75
If you are ordering your To-Do List solely by importance, the To-Do List will order the tasks as follows:
p2
p1
If p2 is completed first, the To-Do List will now display:
Prj2
p1
However, if p1 is completed first, the To-Do list will display:
Prj1
p2
Note: if you use a task just to group together other like tasks, you should set this "container" task to maximum importance relatively to its parent, to avoid artificially lowering the priorities of the tasks it contains.
Urgency Slider
The Urgency of each task is a computed value and is also not directly set by the user. Instead, for each task, you set its urgency relative to its immediate parent. Once you have done that, the program will compute the task's actual urgency. A task's urgency relative to its parent is controlled by a slider and its value ranges from 1 to 2.
Repeating our example from the importance overview, you have two projects in the root of the MyLife outline (Prj1 and Prj2), and each project has one subtask (p1 and p2, respectively). The urgency of each task is computed as follows:
Computed actual urgency of p1 =(Prj1 urgency to outline)*(p1 urgency to Prj1)
Computed actual urgency of p2 =(Prj2 urgency to outline)*(p2 urgency to Prj2)
For example, if the importance values are as follows:
Prj1 = 2, Prj2 = 1.25, p1 = 1.5, p2 = 2
and if the tasks have no due dates set (see a later section for the effect of due dates on urgency), the computed urgency scores will be as follows:
Prj1 = 2
Prj2 = 1.25
p1 = 2 * 1.5 = 3
p2 = 1.25 * 2 = 2.5
If you are ordering your To-Do List solely by Urgency, the To-Do List will be ordered as follows:
p1
p2
If p1 is completed first, the To-Do List will now be ordered as follows:
p2
Prj1
However, if p2 is completed first, the To-Do List will now be ordered like this:
p1
Prj2
Importance and Urgency Combined
If you set MLO to consider both Urgency and Importance in calculating task scores, the score for each task will be the product of its important and its urgency.
Revisiting the examples in the previous two sections, the assigned importance values were:
i-Prj1 = 1, i-Prj2 = .75, i-p1 = .45, i-p2 = .75
and the assigned urgency values were:
u-Prj1 = 2, u-Prj2 = 1.25, u-p1 = 3, u-p2 = 2.5
The combined importance and urgency scores will then be:
Prj1 = 1 * 2 = 2.0
Prj2 = .75 * 1.25 = 0.9375
p1 = .45 * 3 = 1.35
p2 = .75 * 2.25 = 1.6875
If you are ordering your To-Do List by both urgency and importance, then, the To-Do List will display the tasks ordered as follows:
p2
p1
If p2 is completed first, the To-Do List will now be ordered as follows:
p1
Prj2
However, if p1 is completed first, the To-Do List will now be ordered as follows:
Prj1
p2
Factoring Dates into the Urgency Calculation
If the MLO preferences are set to order the To-do List by "Urgency" or by "Importance and Urgency" (that is, if Urgency is to be considered and not just Importance), the start and due dates are used to weight the score of each task based on the nearness to today's date of the dates in question.
How much effect the start and due date will have on the overall urgency of the task can be configured in the MLO preferences. The preferences allow you to set the start and due date weighting factors individually. The higher you set the weights, the more influence the dates will have on the list ordering. Since the weights can be set independently, you can configure the MLO any way you like, including giving higher priority to start dates than to due dates.
This is the point at which things get complicated! Several different formulas are used to get the date- driven score adjustment. The formulas are chosen based on the setup of the task in question and its current relationship to its due date.
If you do not like complex math, you only need to understand the following: The time between the start date and due date is compared to the date selected in the MLO To-Do List (usually today's date), and a boosting factor is computed. If you do like math, the details of this adjustment are as follows:
If Start Date < Due Date
Start date score contribution = (StartDate WeightFactor / (Task Duration / Elapsed)) /2
Due date score contribution = (DueDate WeightFactor / (Task Duration / Elapsed)) /2
If Start Date = Due Date (no start date) and the due date is farther than 1 day away
Start date score contribution = (StartDate WeightFactor / (1 – (1 / Remaining)))/100
Due date score contribution = (DueDate WeightFactor / (1 – (1 / Remaining)))/100
Where Remaining = Date Selected in MLO To-Do – (Start or Due Date depending on which contribution is being computed.
If Start Date = Due Date (no start date) and 1 day or less remains until the due date
Start date score contribution = (StartDate WeightFactor / (((ABS(Remaining -3) – Remaining) / ABS(Remaining -3)) / (ABS(Remaining -3) -1)))/100
Due date score contribution = (DueDate WeightFactor / (((ABS(Remaining -3) – Remaining) / ABS(Remaining -3)) / (ABS(Remaining -3) -1)))/100
Where Remaining = Date Selected in MLO To-Do – (Start or Due Date depending on which contribution is being computed.
That's it for the heavy math.
Once the start and due date score contributions are computed, they are simply added to the current priority score. If you are viewing the To-Do List by just urgency you then get:
Score = UrgencyScore + StartDate Score Contribution + DueDate Score Contribution
If you are viewing the To-Do List by importance and urgency combined, you get:
Score=(ImportanceScore * UrgnecyScore) + StartDate Score Contribution + DueDate Score Contribution
Providing a meaningful example of these results in writing is beyond the scope of this documentation. You are encouraged to play with the program settings and observe the results. It will quickly become apparent that items increase in priority as their start and due dates approach. Just how much they increase depends on how the weighting preferences in MLO are set. The program defaults should provide a reasonable starting point for just about everyone. "
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phew!
it'll take me some time to digest this, but i appreciate you taking the time to post this.
.dan.g.
AbstractSpoon Software
abstractspoon2_at_optusnet_dot_com_dot_au
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Hi .dan.g.
is there a reason why there is no support for different text background colors (using RTF)?
I guess every other formatting feature is available.
If it's not to much trouble, could you please add it?
McBain
BTW: If you copy text with backgroundcolor from Word to ToDoList the backgroundcolor is shown correctly (also after saving the tasklist and restarting ToDoList).
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I've been using TDL for quite awhile now. I have become project manager at my software based company and I want to incorporate TDL for everybody. We have 3 developers, plus me makes 4 total users. Has anybody used TDL in a 4 user environment? If so, does anybody have any recommendations for settings? or tips?
Thanks
JGA
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i suggest you do a comments search because i know there are number of people that have workable (for them) solutions. also try searching on 'cvs'.
.dan.g.
AbstractSpoon Software
abstractspoon2_at_optusnet_dot_com_dot_au
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I seem to be unable to open the zipped source code files, getting a corrupt/invalid error message on opening.
Is anyone else having the same problem?
I Dream of Absolute Zero
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they all seem okay to me (although i have occasionally submitted bad zips).
.dan.g.
AbstractSpoon Software
abstractspoon2_at_optusnet_dot_com_dot_au
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Problem solved.
I've just downloaded the zip at my home PC and it seems to be OK.
Maybe my work's virus scanners intercepted the zip and invalidated it! go figure.
I Dream of Absolute Zero
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Hi Dan,
Just recently came to this program and it is working great for me. It is the first program I've found that works equally well for both my work and personal stuff, and I love how I can customize everything and could still run the whole thing off a floppy disk if I wanted to.
A couple of small things that have cropped up while using the program that I thought you might want to look into (I'm running 4.7.3 right now):
1. Selecting Due Dates for Multiple Items--Whenever I select multiple tasks and try to assign a due date to them using the due date dropdown box, the due dates appear momentarily in the Due column for all the tasks, but then disappear.
2. The Subtask completion that appears in front of tasks in parenthesis ((1/3) for example) works fine most of the time, but occaisionally the parenthesis and the number are overlaid on top of the task name. So for example, I have "Project X" with (1/3) subtasks complete and the first paren is on top of the "P", the 1 is on top of the "r", the / is on top of "o", etc. I've tried collapsing and expanding the tasks, switching tasks, changing task attributes, changing tasklists, etc. but the problem persists. At some point (after a couple of days) I notice that the problem has corrected itself. It happens rarely and I haven't been able to figure out how to generate it. I have "Show parent tasks with folder icon" checked.
3. I have the "Use a task's colour for its title background" option checked. (My staff always joke that if you want to impress me all you have to do is color code something.) The tasks show up in either black or white fonts, depending on the background color, so that they are easy to read. The subtask completion numbers, however, always show up in grey, so they are very hard to read when a task has a dark background. It would be nice if the subtask completion text color could change to match the task text color. It would be a lot easier to read.
4. In the last modified column, the date sometimes blanks out (no last modified date). It seems like this is more common when one of the subtasks has a due date that has already passed or is today, but it doesn't happen all the time. (Fixed in 4.7.5)
Sorry that my comments are so vague with regard to when these things happen.
BTW, I also come from a GTD background and find this program to be exceptionally well suited for GTD already. Of course, there are always dream features that one could hope for, but it is already fully functional for GTD right now.
Thanks!
-- modified at 5:48 Friday 24th March, 2006
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Ah, just realized #4 has been corrected in 4.7.5. Should have checked first.
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Reproduction scenario for 2)
Create 3 tasks on the same level
make #2 a subtask of #1 (shift right)
make #3 a subtask of #2 (shift right twice)
#2 is now overlaid.
(Sometimes "works" with only 2 tasks)
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Litlun wrote: Reproduction scenario for 2)
Create 3 tasks on the same level
make #2 a subtask of #1 (shift right)
make #3 a subtask of #2 (shift right twice)
#2 is now overlaid.
(Sometimes "works" with only 2 tasks)
Sometimes is the key word here. Dan, I can confirm what Litlun says. Sometimes performing these steps will produce the child totals overlaid, other times not. I think there is a bug in the task movement code that only manifests sometimes. I've also triggered overlaid child totals by using the mouse to drag and drop tasks around. Don't be surprised if this isn't 100% reproducible for you.
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the problem relates to moving the treeitem(s) from one parent to another. the copying/moving code does not know that the tree titles are handled using LPSTR_TEXTCALLBACK and as a result they copy the visible text and not LPSTR_TEXTCALLBACK . as a result, the tree control no longer sends TVN_GETDISPINFO notifications for the moved items!
and a cursor glance at the documentation suggests that determining if LPSTR_TEXTCALLBACK is being used will not be easy.
.dan.g.
AbstractSpoon Software
abstractspoon2_at_optusnet_dot_com_dot_au
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thanks hibanayama,
1. there's is definitely something very odd going on here! but it's easily reproducible so will be easy to fix.
2. this is most probably being caused by a refresh bug
3. i had completely forgotten about this preference!
4. fixed (as you noted).
hibanayama wrote: I also come from a GTD background ... there are always dream features that one could hope for
please post these because it may be that certain GTD features are relevant to TDL. eg. combining a range of attributes to produce a weighted average for producing a master priority list.
.dan.g.
AbstractSpoon Software
abstractspoon2_at_optusnet_dot_com_dot_au
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I am thinking of transferring from MyLifeOrganized and have a couple of questions about todolist.
MLO creates a prioritised "to do list" based on factors such as importance and urgency and weekly goal etc.
How does todolist prioritize tasks? Does it have urgency, for example, as a factor? Or is it just using priority?
Another, more dumber question!, I can't see where the prioritized to do list is on screen?! (On MLO the prioritised to do list has its own tab)
thanks for helping me out
http://www.mylifeorganized.net/[^]
-- modified at 19:46 Wednesday 22nd March, 2006
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hi scoobs
todolist was and still is primarily designed with IT workers in mind. it handles multiple open tasklists simultaneously and allows copying and pasting between them - such is the life of many programmers.
as a result there is no separate tab for displaying/working with a tasklist as a simple list as there is in MLO. in that respect and others, todolist is very much more sophisticated in its list handling.
attributes, however, are not interrelated so there is no facility to merge attributes into a single value against which you can then sort, although this seems like it would be useful to non-GTD users also.
btw, until about a week ago i wasn't even aware of GTD as a discpline of it's own, so it'll be a little while before i can see how to make todolist more GTD friendly without reducing its flexibility for other applications (eg. i know someone who used it last year to total up their tax return expenses across more than 20 separate categories).
ps. i have downloaded and played with MLO already so feel free to highlight specific differences and suggest enhancements.
.dan.g.
AbstractSpoon Software
abstractspoon2_at_optusnet_dot_com_dot_au
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Thanks for the reply
MLO is very similar to a program called Lifebalance from a company called Llamasoft, so you might want to take a look at that too.
The key difference between MLO/Lifebalance and todlist is that they both compute the list based on some attribute fields - typically task urgency and importance.
GTD is a pretty flexible model from what I know, and most task management programs can accomodate it, as its just based around listing everything you need to do , and categorizing your to do items into different groups from what I can see. MLO and Lifebalance weren't primarily designed for GTD, though many users are using GTD principles with these programs
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there have been a number of people i've come across recently who are switching to ToDoList from MLO but i can't work about why, except that usability seems to be part of it.
if MLO/LB are specifically geared around GTD (and they seem very similar) why change?
perhaps you could give me an insight because it would help me figure the core values of ToDoList which i need to maintain as i add features.
.dan.g.
AbstractSpoon Software
abstractspoon2_at_optusnet_dot_com_dot_au
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In todolist I like these things (which you can't do in MLO)
- tasks have a field for allocated to
- tasks can be allocated by (I love this idea, it means you can keep
track of things you are doing for your boss for instance)
- there is a clock you can start and stop for each task to record time
spent
- the risk field
However, to switch from MLO I'd want a feature that allows prioritisation of the task list like MLO does - ie due date, urgency, importance etc all taken into consideration. Otherwise I think I'd end up doing lower important tasks first, missing deadlines etc (Unless I'm missing something about todlist and how it works)
MLO isn't particularly geared around GTD by the way (see my previous post)
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