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No, not Nish 
- CP Regular
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Colin Davies wrote:
Good luck anyhow !
Thanks Colin
- CP Regular
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Christian Graus wrote:
You think if your boss reads this, he won't be able to figure out it's you ?
I doubt he's actually going to come here in the first place, and if he does it would probably only to see what I've been posting. But you're right I did give way too much info, one of my nasty habits  If he finds out its me, no big deal really; it'll be a not-so-subtle hint but one he had to do some work for
Christian Graus wrote:
If they are not paying you, and especially if you don't have a NDA that excludes the possibility of you doing other work, you should give it a go.
*glances over contract*
I do have an NDA, but i don't think there is much for there to be concerned about, the direction they're going and the direction I want to go are two different things with little information that could be considered proprietary (standard pc repair and troubleshooting). On the software side what would I have to watch out for?
CP Regular
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Thanks for your suggestions everyone; my boss will be notified on monday 
- CP Regular
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I was looking into taking the desktop applications and distributed applications by VC++ (I think test numbers 015 and 016).
Is it worth taking these test now with .NET out?
What is the best way to prepare for these tests? Someone told me that the exam cram series books by Coriolis were good. But then they are out of print which again tells me that either the test is about to expire or that the books are grossly outdated and that the test format has changed.
So whats a good source to prepare for the test?
Thanks.
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Yes these exams are still worth it. All the exams necessary for .NET won't be available until sometime in 2003. Even so MS has been quoted as saying there are no current plans to retire the existing MCSD certs.
I used the Exam Cram books to get an idea of the subject matter but relied mostly on experience and study from other sources, such as MSDN.
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Mark Nischalke wrote:
I used the Exam Cram books
Do you find them any good?
Now taking suggestionsfor a new sig. please email me all suggestions.
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I used the Exam Cram books and I did it 6 month ago .. but like you I'm worry about the somekind of retirement ..
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I have recently been asked to take a C++ test administered by TeckChek. I have no idea what all they will cover. It just says C++. Anyone out there who has taken this test.
Thanks
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I haven't used TeckChek though I had to sit the C++ exam on BrainBench last Monday.
They cover standard C++ nothing to do with Windows messaging, API, MFC or anything like that. It contained 40 questions and I had 3 minutes to answer each question. If it wasn't answered by the 3 minute mark it was marked as wrong. If you answered early you just lost the time, still 3 minutes for all the other questions.
It asked stuff like the order of construction or destruction of a class that inherited from multiple base classes (which I had never had to do in 6 years of coding). Static functions and variables, const functions and variables, reference parameters. Pointer arithmetic with all answers looking the same except for a character or two. Virtual functions and other stuff I can't remember.
Most of it you will know, but the pressure of the timer counting done in the bottom left corner of the browser and the similarity of many of the answers will stress you. Christ, I finished in 90 minutes and was more stressed than interviews I have attended that went over two hours with four interviewers or university exams I have sat.
Make sure you are in a quite environment when you take it, review standard C++ in the couple of days leading up to the test and if allowed have a couple of reference books available that you know well. This last one is important, it is better to have something you know the layout of well as you don't have mush time to find or check an answer.
By the way I got 25.5 out of 40, got the interview and have been waiting the last 2 days for an answer to see if I have the job or not.
Michael Martin
Australia
mjm68@tpg.com.au
"Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace"
- Victor Stone
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Hi,all
i want to give MCP for VC++(Desktop application),is it really fruitfull to give it now.For how much time this certification will be valid? Where should i get the latest syllabus for it? if anyone knows the exact format of question paper(objective/subjective) that will be helpfull.Is the Syllabus in microsoft site latest?
Which books are good to prepare myself for certification.
Thanx and Regards
Tushar.
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The best book for VC++ Desktop is VC++ Desktop Exam Cram from Coriolis, do a search on Amazon to check the reviews.
I already passed the 2 VC++ exams, and the desktop exam was fairly more difficult for me 
The Distributed Exam cram don't have enough information about the MTS/ADO stuff that appears on the test, you must compliment this with msdn, it worked pretty well for me .
Tushar mahajan wrote:
is it really fruitfull to give it now
Tushar, is still helpfull, because you still have more 1 1/2(+/-) to the exam disappear.
Cheers,
Joao Vaz
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You can find more information at Microsoft Training and Certification. Follow the links for some practice exams and information about Transcendar exams and such.
As for books I haven't found a single source for all the information. I used Exam Cram supplemented with other sources such as MSDN and experience. The current exams are not scheduled for retirement and even so one of the required exams for the new course is not scheduled to be available until 2003. Generally you will have a year from then to recertify so I would be to concerned about obsolescence.
Tushar mahajan wrote:
if anyone knows the exact format of question paper
I would be careful about asking this, these exams are covered by an NDA.
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Mark Nischalke wrote:
As for books I haven't found a single source for all the information. I used Exam Cram supplemented with other sources such as MSDN and experience.
Exactly the way I prepared myself...
Crivo
Automated Credit Assessment
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Hi, Tushar.
Just curious - do you find that the certifications like MCP are a significant factor when you're looking for a job? I typically work as a mercenary in the US, and I find that people don't really care that much about the certification programs, but rather just tend to focus on job experience.
Of course, my experiences may not be representative of the whole...
Chistopher Duncan
Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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The MCP can be helpful when starting out, but eventually its a good idea to move on to a premier cert. Typically MCPs make less than people that aren't certified just due to the fact that most MCPs have little experience. To me, certification is proof (to myself and my employer) that I work hard at what I do, even outside of the workplace. Its something tangible.
I can see in a consulting position where certs may not matter as much. But then again, the biggest MS shop around here offers a quick 5k bump in salary for holding a premier certification...
Do you see certification as ever hurting your possibilities at landing a contract?
Andy Gaskell, MCSD MCDBA
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AndyG wrote:
Do you see certification as ever hurting your possibilities at landing a contract?
No, not at all. In this business, continuing education is always a Good Thing.
However, that having been said, there are two reasons that I don't personally pursue certifications. The first is simply a matter of practicality. There are only so many hours in the day, which for me are usually filled with an array of side projects (many of which are resume enhancing). At least in my environment, certifications just don't bring enough to the party in terms of improving my career options to justify the amount of time that they take to achieve. When it comes time to look for a new gig, my searches have always comes down to the interview and whether or not I have actual job experience with the little bits of technology that a client needs at the moment. For the most part, what I see on the streets is that employers (at least in my neck of the woods) don't put a lot of stock in certification programs, Microsoft or otherwise. And everyone who's done any hiring knows that people fresh out of college with no practical experience beyond a BSCS are going to have to be shown most everything in the beginning. Employers are looking for experience in the real world.
Frankly I must say, with no disrespect towards the many excellent programmers I've known who also have degrees & certs, that I can understand the employer's point of view. I have worked with many programmers who had a vast collection of certifications on their resume and in the end, not to be unkind, they couldn't find their posterior with both hands and a flashlight. A clueless programmer with a certificate is still a clueless programmer (and make no mistake, clueless programmers can still pass the cert exams - I've met them). The same applies to college degrees. I've seen people with more degrees on their resume than the you could shake a stick at. These were highly, highly educated individuals who were clearly much more intelligent than my little uneducated self, and yet they were an absolute disaster to the projects they were on. Couldn't code their way out of a wet paper bag. In fact (I wish now I had printed it out), one of the most convoluted functions I've ever seen was from someone who had both a gazillion degrees and certifications. It was about 20 lines of C++ where literally every line (not counting the curly braces) was incorrect, in sometimes bizarre ways. And it was all to replace atol(), which he didn't even know existed. And yet, on paper, this guy was an absolute stud.
Make no mistake here, my point is not to show disrespect towards those capable and qualified programmers who have degrees and / or certifications. Rather, it's to point out that nothing takes the place of practical experience, and employers know this. I frequently have people come to me and express a desire to become a programmer, asking where they should start, which college courses, certification programs, etc. My response is probably unprofessional and unconventional, but I tell them to save that money and spend it instead on books and a compiler. You'll get up to speed and get a job in a much, much shorter time frame, you'll spend more time actually coding, and frankly, if they have to go back to college every time they need to learn a new technology or API, they're toast in this business anyway. Things change too quickly. You have to be able to pick it up on your own.
Mind you, all of this must be taken in the context of where I live, the US. I have friends from India who have told me that the job market is so tight there you can hardly get a job flipping burgers without at least a BS. And I have no experience in other countries, either. So above all, it's a matter of doing what's practical for your own environment. In the US, however, those who spend their nights lit by the glow of a monitor as they bang out code are able to compete favorable in the market with their degreed and certified brethren.
While I'm sure that there's tons of people here with a long educational pedigree, I suspect that there are also quite a few who got into this business with no formal education whatsoever and have successful careers that came from nothing more than late nights with a compiler. We're extremely fortunate that we can get away with that in this business. You'll never be able to get a gig as a lawyer or accountant like that...
Chistopher Duncan
Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
A clueless programmer with a certificate is still a clueless programmer (and make no mistake, clueless programmers can still pass the cert exams - I've met them).
Clueless people are a fact of life and somehow they get degrees and certifications. I'd also say a lot of clueless people have don't have degress or certifications. Unfortunately the certification exams aren't foolproof and it is fairly easy to cheat. But it will catch up to them someday when they go in for a technical interview and the hiring manager decides to bring in a few members of the team to ask some questions...
I'm also in the US and got my start in an unconventional manner, but I think here is where we start to differ. I've only been a professional developer for about 3 years now so as far as salary, I'm still on my way up. I also work in a corporate environment as opposed to consulting. While my immediate supervisor does not put a lot of weight into certifications, he does put weight into learning new skills and becoming better at the skills you already have. So when its time for performance reviews my supervisor knows where I'm coming from and understands the situation, but what reason does he give his supervisor on why he is asking for X amount of dollars for Andy's review? Instead of saying "Andy done real good at learning the SQL Server! Give him more money!" he can say "Andy has the MCDBA certification, and that means he knows SQL Server.". Our reviews aren't based solely on certs, but the more ammunition, the better. And on one hand I could have learned SQL Server inside and out, not gotten certified, jumped to a new job and that would have definately affected my marketable skills and in turn affect salary. But I'm happy with my current job, and if certification helps my boss tell his boss that I'm worth it, then I'm all for it.
Certifications don't make me better than anyone, but the amount of effort I put into doing what I love does.
Andy Gaskell, MCSD MCDBA
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Well said, and a good point. When I was a regular prior to my merc days, I changed jobs about once a year, and bumped my salary a minimum of 10k each time. You can't get those kinds of raises at the same job, but we spend so much of our time at the office, when you find a great job, why look for another one?
At that point, anything that helps bump the salary is a good thing. Plus, of course, learning is always fun...
Chistopher Duncan
Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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The test may retire at some point (probably within a couple years), but you'll never lose your status as an MCP. For a sample of the testing format, check out a demo at www.transcender.com. For more information on the VC++ Desktop exam check here: http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/exams/70-016.asp
I've heard that MS is developing VC++ versions of the .NET exams, but they seem to be taking a back seat to the VB and C# exams.
Andy Gaskell, MCSD MCDBA
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Ok... let´s start a real discussion here.
I remember that I´ve spended a fortune with my MCSD certification. Now MS lauched the new VS and I need to do all the MCSD stuff again. Wouldn´t be fair if they have an UPGRADE certification, like they created for Windows 2000 ? They could at least give us a discount on the tests or something... I´ll have to spend a fortune again... 
Mauricio Ritter - Brazil
Sonorking now: 100.13560 Trank
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I am surprised that you actually think you would do yourself good by getting a new certification, Mauricio. Just show them that game you created and also show them the new racing game. In my opinion, that alone should give anybody with any sense a pretty good idea of your programming skills.
Buster
Nish was here, now Nish has gone;
He left his soul, to turn you on;
Those who knew Nish, knew him well;
Those who didn't, can go to hell.
I like to ![Jig | [Dance]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/jig.gif) on the Code Project
Sonork ID 100.9786 voidmain
www.busterboy.org
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Nish [BusterBoy] wrote:
Just show them that game you created and also show them the new racing game.
The problem is that I can´t submit my games with my resume. I really don´t think they would be usefull if I send my resume applying to a datawarehouse/database job or a web development one (this thingys give some good money sometimes). I hope that someday I create games fulltime and stop working with things I don´t like much.
Nish [BusterBoy] wrote:
In my opinion, that alone should give anybody with any sense a pretty good idea of your programming skills.
I would like if things works that way, but here a certification means a lot (some companies pay more if you have a certification). I´ve another problem... I´m instructor in a MS ATEC, so I need the cert to minister the courses.
Mauricio Ritter - Brazil
Sonorking now: 100.13560 Trank
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Hi, where can I found that game ?
Thanks,
Andres Manggini.
Buenos Aires - Argentina.
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