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sorry the link was typed rather than copied try[^]
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Hello Again!
AS the datacenter costs are astronomics I have more and more the same idea... get rid of most servers...
I think it is possible (partially) by implementing a lot of the background work over WebServices, but for that I need to know if there is some way  to subscribe and consume WebServices Public Events on Windos Forms Applications.
I dream about a WebService to control the Session Status of my Users, by alerting then whem messsages comes, or by kicking then when necessary, etc...
Maybe someone had the same idea and have success on that...
Please, if is there any code (vb.net pleeeese) to implement Public WebServices Events, and Consuming them over an Windows Form Application LET ME KNOW! Because I really want to test this alternative...
Thank You!
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How will this result in less servers?
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By migrating a lot classic (resource consuming) tcp client/server applications that I have to host on separate servers... Politics my friend... just politics... as the clients don't understand that their services are running together whith a lot of other services just on the next door...
But if I offer a WebService intead a classic Client/Server, it will be less complicated... and... I promisse that... I will put everething together on just one server without any problems...
The true isn't what we want to hear every time... sorry... but it is not a techinical justification to migrate those services... as I think you are expecting...
Thanks.
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The easiest way these days is to virtualise. If these "client/server applications" can't exist together on one machine and you want to cut the number of machines then virtualise the existing machines using Virtual Server or VMWare. This way you don't waste time re-writing everything.
Of course, if you need to re-write one of these "client/server applications" for other reasons then it may be an opportunity to upgrade to newer technologies.
By the way, do you know that a web service is just another example of a client/server application?
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Off course... webservice is just another type of the same thing... but has the ability to impersonates the backbone behind the application... and that is just what I want...
And yes... I will be thinking on virtualizing those servers... if possible because I rely on rented servers.
Thank You!
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Thanks for your attention!
About the WFC...
Is there any way to implement this on WebServices? Is that hard and time consuming or there are dev tools on the VS2008 to help on that?
About wondering....
What costs me much is the number of servers I have to maintain "isolated" (for the sake of the purity) with few classic (tcp) remoting client/server just to control, response and manage those remote events... Not the server (processing, storage...) resources consuption... For me it is very easy to put everybody (the servers app.) on the same server... but I don't think It will be fair with my clients (unless they know that they will be consuming a WebService intead a classic remote server solution)... and... it is not safe to put different classes of services running on the same server, because I just can't be 100% sure that the server is 100% hacker safe forever...
That's why I dreaming on get rid of all my classic remoting solutions to abrace WebServices... At least I need to experience it...
Thank You!
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Thank you again!
I Think You Get My Point over my WebServices thing...
But, that's it?! Now I will have acess to [only one!] event called [webmethodwhatever]completed...
Please help comment this....
Is it possible to use this Tip of yours to implement something like this?
1 - Create a WebMethod that opens a kind of session controller for the app clients... and keep this method running until any flag tell it to raise that completed event.. terminating the session for that client...
2 - If it is possible we have half way there... Because I need that while the client still connected to this "webservice_controlled_session_kindof..." he also send his status to the session (active, sleeping, querying... whatever..., and receive session messages, etc... like any other client/server solution of mine...
How do I do that relying only on webservices?
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!
P.S.
I send a request to join on you [linkedin.com] professional network... hope you don't mind... thanks..
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E.Nando wrote: Create a WebMethod that opens a kind of session controller for the app clients... and keep this method running until any flag tell it to raise that completed event.. terminating the session for that client...
As far as I know there's no good way of doing this with web services. Only thing that comes in mind is a polling system.
E.Nando wrote: I send a request to join on you
I'm trying to keep the number of my connections very low and only people I know in person. This has been a policy for me for years, nothing personal in it.
I'd like to add one thing. The way I see it is that both Dave and Colin have excellent knowledge and they are capable of seeing wide concepts. Personally I like when someone suggests something, even though it may not be exactly the answer I was looking for. This usually helps me to reconsider, what is my target and possibly redefine it, if necessary.
The need to optimize rises from a bad design.
My articles[ ^]
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You've thought of this WAY too late. You haven't heard of blade centers or Virtual Servers, have you??
Besides, you're method of using Web Services will not result in a lower server count, but actually increase it.
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It will depends on the numbers of requests you have... As all solutions that I have the opportunity to develop until now, does not have "that" kind of hits count... they have to be on separate servers because the clients want that way...
But if I stop offering classic tcp client/server solutions and offers the same result over the WebServices solution... this will be "the" solution for "me"! because it will justify different solution from a (application solution provider) domain running together on the same server (at least it appears to be the same server...).
And... about the blade and/or virtual servers.... THEY COST 300 bucks/month!!! Isn't they?
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E.Nando wrote: And... about the blade and/or virtual servers.... THEY COST 300 bucks/month!!! Isn't they?
Where did you get this from? You're talking about reducing the server count in a business that usually has their own servers, not rented. In a few corporate cases around me, there's movement towards building a single large server (multi-proc, 16GB+ RAM, large drive arrays) that's running Virtual Server, on which, there's about 10 to 15 "normal" servers running. Since the bulk of a server's time usually spent idle, you can get away with running multiple virtual servers on a single physical machine.
Blade centers are just a frame to hold, power, and manage, smaller, low cost servers, offering flexible scalability.
And no, this does not cost $300 a month. Maybe in power costs, but not renting costs since you own the hardware.
You're still behind the curve with this idea. Look into "Software as a Service"...
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Oh my...
I have a [small] business that relies on rented servers... yes... and by fact... have no intention on creating a big enterprise... nor to be surrounded with very important staff people...
I just want that "Software as a Service" thing... works for me as well... and by that... I mean that I want to try to put everything I can on WebServices... on a unique central server... just to enjoy my life better...
And thank you for give me nothing... again...
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E.Nando wrote: I mean that I want to try to put everything I can on WebServices...
May I suggest that you put the appropriate stuff on Web Services. Don't make the mistake of pigeon-holing all your applications just to find out that Web Services wasn't the most appropriate way to do something.
E.Nando wrote: And thank you for give me nothing... again...
BTW, you started this thread by saying "datacenters". That's not exactly a "small business" term...
modified on Sunday, November 16, 2008 8:26 PM
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Yes... thanks for your suggestion... and yes I am worryed about centralizing on one "aparently weak" or "new" tech... but I need to try...
And sorry, I really used the wrong term... "datacenter" is not the right term.
Thanks!
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Hello there!
I want to know if there is some way to override the connection class to implement any kind of crypto desired (including custom crypto).
I say... I need a code (vb.net please) to intercept any incomming reads and any outgoing writes to implement crypto methods easily.
The benefits are enormous as we will not have to change the queries.
Thank you!
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If you do that, how will the database be able to tell what queries you are sending? Or how will it be able to send the answers back encrypted in the way you want?
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Thanks for your attention!
Look... The queries will not change...
When I query: "SELECT Name, Address FROM Clients WHERE Name = 'John Doe'" on the code... the server just do the thing... responsing something that is crypted without knowing that... and that IS ok...
What I need is to avoid custom code customization like this:
myQuery = "SELECT Name, Address FROM Clients WHERE Name = '" & Crypt("John Doe") & "'"
I need to develop something smart enough to intercept this message and replace only the crypted fields (I will have to inform what field are customizing the connection-or whatever class, or by informing a pattern like... all text fiels... or all fiels with fieldnames begining with "abc"... whatever) with the right values to be possible the server catch the query...
I don't need to rely on storage procedures or triggers or any database engine... I need code side solution for this... I am a developer... not a DBA... and... I dont need those crypto/decrypto methods on the hands of anybody else... nor saved on the Database trigger code... it will be not safe...
On the end I need something on the DataAdapter, or on the Connection classes to intercept this message and translate it before sending the command for the database engine...
And... on the other hand... the response will be the same....
As the server sends me something like this...
Name | Address
--------------------------------------
~4wi2.s |!´$dn8#$0z0e[´_=2^/\!%
I need those fiels automaticaly re-rendered to something readable whitout having to code, because the class translates it for me...
Name | Address
--------------------------------------
John Doe | 2540 Developers Street
Avoiding the hard code:
For each Record replace Record.value with Decipher(Record.value)... etc...
Ok?
Please... give something to begin...
Thanks...
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The basic idea of encrypting connections is described in here: Encrypting Connections to SQL Server[^].
Beyond that, I believe you could use stored procedures that take encrypted text as parameter and return, not result sets, but encrypted text. In both ends you could then decrypt the data. But I really don't see the point in doing that:
- performance degrades
- complexity increases
- possible interpretation problems
- not likely to result any better security than those mechanisms that are supported by SQL Server
The need to optimize rises from a bad design.
My articles[ ^]
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I see...
But I'm not interested on attaching my code on any SQL Server Engine on particular... please understand...
And... no way to write this kind of code on DBA personel public areas... nor on the client-adminstrated database servers...
And about those points you mentioned...
- performance degrades
It depends on the value of the data you are storing... in some cases it justifies this degradation...
- complexity increases
I have the custom crypto product already developed, and, i see no complexity on simplifying the code envolved on the ciphering methods... again... this fact by itself (simplifying custom ciphering code) justifies the work...
- possible interpretation problems
Problems are here to resolve... but first we need then to pop-up... And that's why I need to rewrite those connection, dataadapter and command classes...
- not likely to result any better security than those mechaninsms that are supported by SQL Server
You don't think it? Interesting! Because on my humble opinion those classic crypto methods are a kind of "boxed"... That's why I have writted my custom cyphering classes...
But please... Give me something to work on that classes... freely... not depending on a specific database engine... Because I am ready to try to rewrite those classes for each engine, one by one...
But I need to know more about rewriting those classes...
Thank You!
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I'm having a hard time to undertstand what you're after.
If you want to communicate securely with the database server, almost all of the database systems support that (as I posted the ink regarding SQL Server)
If you want to store the data encrypted, some of the database systems support also that (for example both SQL Server and Oracle). The idea is that if you have sufficient priviliges, you'll see the actual data regardless what tool you use.
If you want to encrypt the data so that it cannot be seen anywhere but in your program, you'll encrypt the data before you send it to the database. The simpliest way could by using classes that are inherited from the actual Parameter classes (like SqlParameter). Whenever the value is set in your program, you encrypt it and when the value is retrieved, you decrypt it. This would however have a downside not seeing the data correctly in the database (using for example Enterprise Manager etc) even if you have sufficient privileges.
But if I understood you correctly, inheriting parameter and adding logic to it could be a starting point. However, I don't think you can do this so that it's usable for all databases since every database has different classes (SQL Server has SqlCOnnection, SqlParameter etc, Oracle has OracleConnection, OracleParameter etc, ODBC has OdbcConnection, OdbcParameter and so on)
The need to optimize rises from a bad design.
My articles[ ^]
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Dear Mika Wendelius,
Thank you again for your attention! You are a kind of a person!
Let me explain myself better... as I posted to our friend, Mr.Dave Kreskowiak:
"I just like big tasks... as I sense that the basic flexibility for those classes needs to be on discussion... And I am ready to begin working on it...
Databases Engines are for help, not to orient the code... As I think that way...
And, for that... I just trying to have some flexibility on those classes"
And I think that is what "discussion foruns" about... it is not all about ourselves, our careers, jobs... it is to discuss the very basics, and it is what I am doing... questioning... trying... improving... and looking for the benefits over that...
Now... commenting your nice words....
"... almost all database systems supports that..."
Yes! But all relies on server certificates... that costs a lot for me... then I need to send those tcp-ip packs already crypted... whithout relying on thirty party security services, orders, certificates, wills, etc...
"If you want to encrypt.... if you have sufficient priviliges"
See... that's the point!!! I command the database I am responsible for BY CODE... not on the contrary... understand now? please...
"If you want to encrypt the data... inherited the actual Parameter classes. Whenever the value is set in you program, you encrypt it and when the value is retrieved, you decrypt it..."
Again... that is the point... I need those classes to do the hard work for me... not on the contrary... please... understand...
"I don't think you can do this so tha it's usable for all databases since every database has different classes..."
Lets begin coding... MySQL first... MS SQL next on the line... etc...
Please see the post I send to Mr. Colin Angus Mackay...
=========== begin copyed post =========
Thanks for your attention!
Look... The queries will not change...
When I query: "SELECT Name, Address FROM Clients WHERE Name = 'John Doe'" on the code... the server just do the thing... responsing something that is crypted without knowing that... and that IS ok...
What I need is to avoid custom code customization like this:
myQuery = "SELECT Name, Address FROM Clients WHERE Name = '" & Crypt("John Doe") & "'"
I need to develop something smart enough to intercept this message and replace only the crypted fields (I will have to inform what field are customizing the connection-or whatever class, or by informing a pattern like... all text fiels... or all fiels with fieldnames begining with "abc"... whatever) with the right values to be possible the server catch the query...
I don't need to rely on storage procedures or triggers or any database engine... I need code side solution for this... I am a developer... not a DBA... and... I dont need those crypto/decrypto methods on the hands of anybody else... nor saved on the Database trigger code... it will be not safe...
On the end I need something on the DataAdapter, or on the Connection classes to intercept this message and translate it before sending the command for the database engine...
And... on the other hand... the response will be the same....
As the server sends me something like this...
Name | Address
--------------------------------------
~4wi2.s |!´$dn8#$0z0e[´_=2^/\!%
I need those fiels automaticaly re-rendered to something readable whitout having to code, because the class translates it for me...
Name | Address
--------------------------------------
John Doe | 2540 Developers Street
Avoiding the hard code:
For each Record replace Record.value with Decipher(Record.value)... etc...
Ok?
Please... give something to begin...
Thanks...
=========== end copyed post ===========
Thanks for your support!
But... yet... I need those classes codes to ovewrite then... in VB.net...
Is there any source for it?
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