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PIEBALDconsult wrote: SQL is a programming language
Ain't. It is a query language.
PIEBALDconsult wrote: It may not be general-purpose or Turing complete, but, in my opinion, that doesn't matter.
It matters
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"Computer programs (also software programs, or just programs) are instructions for a computer." -- Wikipedia
That's not a very good definition (as I recall, my early teachers also included things like "step-by-step" etc.), but it gets the idea across.
SQL is a language for specifying instructions to a computer -- as far as I'm concerned, that makes it a programming language.
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: That's not a very good definition
There we agree...
PIEBALDconsult wrote: SQL is a language for specifying instructions to a computer -- as far as I'm concerned, that makes it a programming language.
HTML also specifies instructions to a computer - how to render a web page. Does it make it a programming language?
Or how about RTF - also a set of instructions for a computer, but I don't know anybody who would call it a programming language.
One way or another, there must be some well-defined line that divides programming languages from "the rest of the world", and that line is Turing completeness. Standard SQL is not Turing complete, therefore it is not a programming language. PL/SQL and T-SQL are Turing complete and they are programming languages.
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Documents written in HTML, XML, RTF, etc. are data, not programs.
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: that line is Turing completeness
I just don't see it that way nor any reason to define it like that.
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: PL/SQL and T-SQL are Turing complete
Then you may assume that when I say "SQL" I am referring to the SQL-92-compliant parts of PL/SQL and T-SQL.
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Only select is a query.
Insert, update, delete, create, drop, truncate, alter, etc. are not queries; they are program statements.
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OK, to end this (very interesting ) discussion, I suggest you take a look at the SQL Standard[^]. You'll notice that SQL is called "Database Language SQL" and if you scroll down to chapter 4.20, you'll see how SQL interfaces with "standard programming languages". I guess you can make a case that SQL can still be called a "non-standard programming language" but the SQL standard itself never does that.
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Well then that changes my answer to 2 if you leave out scripting languages like sh.
John
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What? No. I didn't say that scripting languages aren't programming languages.
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I should have clicked the link before answering..
C++
SQL
sh
bash
awk
sed
John
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It's easy!
1. c++ - app dev
2. perl - scripts
web dev:
3. php
4. sql
5. javascript
doesn't include c#, java, asp used on occasion.
such fun - I'm glad to have autocomplete.
cheers
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In my case the 4-5 is largely for legacy app support.
Also, not everyone has a language as flexible as C# that you can use in the web, console, windows and mobile space.
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- C#
- C++
- C
- PHP
- Python
- JavaScript
Oops, that's more than 5...
I doubt it. If it isn't intuitive then we need to fix it. - Chris Maunder
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Intel x86 & x64 assembler
C++
C#
JavaScript
PHP
Less frequently, Visual Basic
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jarvisa wrote: Intel x86 & x64 assembler
Do you really use these anymore? I have not written a single line of .asm in almost 10 years and I do image processing with 25MB to 2 GB sized images.
John
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I voted 4-5, but as I read the rest of the comments on here, I realized I forgot some. Of course, I wear many hats at work - I'm an embedded developer on ARM and x86 processors, I'm the "web guy" for internal tools (and regularly assist the "web/IT guy" for customer-facing tools), and I'm also the internal PC tools guy, which means the following:
Embedded:
C
C++
Web:
PHP
Javascript
PC Tools:
C#
Perl
VB6 (legacy apps)
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C++, PLC programming (IECxxxx), ISO/DIN code for our CNC machines, ABB robots rapid language, KRL Kuka robot language.
Some times PHP and some times SQL...and some others but not usually...
Those are the most common I use...
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You must not do web development. 4-5 is pretty common. In a .NET shop, there are often both C# and VB.NET programs floating around that most people have to touch on a monthly basis, now automatically, that's 2 there. Then, if you do any web development, you're certainly going to use JavaScript, so that's 3. And, most programs use a database, so you're likely going to write or edit stored procedures. Though SQL <i>queries</i> are not written in a <i>programming</i> language, when you write a stored procedure, it has all the logic control that dictates what a programming language is, so that makes 4.
Since most developers these days are web developers (at least, part time), that puts at least 3 programming languages up there right away. And, as the primary coding language (C# in your and my cases), it's not uncommon for a shop to have 2 or three. My place of work had VB6, VBScript, C#, and VB.Net when I started there 4.5 years ago. We've all but scrapped the VB6 and VBScript, so that gets us down to 2 primary languages, but there's a new initiative where we're experimenting with Python, Ruby, Ruby on Rails (are those separate languages?), and a few others. So, very quickly, our language count is going to jump up.
The ones who are "bragging" are the ones who are counting languages that are <i>not</i> <i><b>programming</b></i> languages, like plain old SQL, HTML, XML, XHTML, and maybe even counting <i>concepts</i> like ASP.NET, Ajax and such as "programming languages".
But, 4-5, most definitely would be common.
Hey! There's a BUG on this entry form! I copied my text to notepad, then pasted it back, and all angled brackets are converted on insert to ampersand + "gt" or "lt" plus semi-colin. I didn't notice this until /after/ I'd posted. Ugh!
modified on Sunday, November 22, 2009 11:55 AM
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yeah.. it's an official language now.
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I use C# and SQL nearly every day. Plus I don't think a month goes by that I don't do something with at least one other language; C, Perl, BASIC, DCL -- often in response to a post here on CP.
Were there a Go compiler for Windows I would have dabbled in that last week.
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I use five languages regularly (e.g. every day of the week)
Objective-C
C
C++
C#
Ruby
Paul
A .NET developer who now drinks the Ruby and Cocoa Koolaid.
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Again, a good poll that could have been even better with some of the options. There are options for 10-12, 12-15, etc up to 30* but there's no 0 option?
There are a few people who don't regularly get our hands on code. Personally, I voted 1 because I use SQL** nearly everyday. I don't use Java regularly enough for it to count here, and my C# use is even lesser. Roger Wright, for instance, might be one of our regular members who might have found a '0' option useful.
"This is a programming site!" and all that, yeah, but after all is said and done, I would expect more 0s than honest 30s.
* Come, now, I would expect 15 to be extreme, but 30+ is a bald-faced lie
** Despite what some might say, IMO it counts as a language and it appears on the Wikipedia link
Cheers,
Vikram. (Cracked not one CCC, but two!)
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Vikram A Punathambekar wrote: IMO it counts as a language
Standard SQL is a query language, but not a programming language (it is not Turing complete). However, most extensions such as PL/SQL and T-SQL are programming languages.
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I had to check 4-5 because I am currently under sentence to write an application in Visual FoxPro. For compatibility, I have to use version 8, which rubs just a bit of salt into this gaping wound.
It matters little - what's hell +/- an ember?
Anyone else similarly screwed by management orders? [forced to use a language which is being dropped, is incompatible with the common paradigms (like .NET), and comes from an era when scope was . . . ah, never mind].
The $(*&$)( we do for money. Stupid necessities of life.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"It's a sad state of affairs, indeed, when you start reading my tag lines for some sort of enlightenment. Sadder still, if that's where you need to find it." - Balboos HaGadol
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