|
you need all kinds; and you can't ignore the experts, they do provide answers and articles.
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
|
|
|
|
|
that's true
|
|
|
|
|
The vision is twofold:
1. Help software developers in their job of developing software
2. Give developers a place meet and discuss software development with like-minded people
I'd say we've achieved both and, obviously, can do many more things, and many things better. This will never change, no matter how we polish features because requirements will always change.
For Quick Answers the vision was to fix a few issues with the discussion forums that, for many, were a source of pain
- questions where being continually posted in the wrong forum
- The forum structure (all questions and answers on one page) meant search engine links were always wrong. They would link to one question even though the keyword was on another question higher on the page. This made our search results from Google, for instance, less than useful.
- the quality of the questions was going downhill
- the mechanism for understanding when a question was solved ("mark as accepted") simply wasn't being used
Quick Answers makes it easy to post a question and tag it by what you think it should be tagged and not by our restricted number of forum topics. If the post is plain awful it can be updated to be more readable which makes it easier for others to read. Filtering for only those questions you are interested in is now possible.
Links to questions and answers from search engines are spot on and so now we can help more devs find answers to similar questions they have.
The new reputation system rewards those who answer and those who edit, and provides a safe way to automatically say who should be trusted and who needs more time, and the new reporting system we've added makes it easier to quickly report items that should be removed (for QA) or that need to be given attention (articles, tips), with the added benefit that it's also being used in the moderation system - thus answering a long term complaint that a single approval was allowing bad articles through, and that approvals (and reports) weren't generating rep points.
Tips and Tricks is something we wanted for ages as a way to allow authors to post snippets and to stop the "this is too short for an article - go away" comments on short articles. Those comments are disheartening.
Ultimately we wanted to replace the programming forums with Quick Answers but Luc and others were vociferous in their opposition and they had a great point: not everyone wants to ask a question and leave. Back-and-forth discussions can be the best way for someone to understand something, and we do need a place where we can discuss technology, as opposed to just feeding answers to members who need quick answers to their problems.
As to how we reconcile this dichotomy? Initially I was planning on merging the two but I've come to realise this won't provide the best of both worlds. This will make the supporters of both systems unhappy.
For the article system
Tips and Tricks is one piece but there are a couple of further things we need to add. From a usability point we're rewriting the submission wizard since it's awful, and because our move to using Google as our email provide has made sending source code with exe's in it impossible. A crucial part of the news submission wizard will be the ability to edit all your articles, anytime, while ensuring moderation of content is still in force.
Our hardware
For our hardware we have just completed one of the finishing pieces which was to get full redundancy on our hardware and improve speed. I don't talk much about that, nor do you really get to see what's happening, but that is as important as anything else.
We are trying to cater to many different audiences and I tend to try to cater to everyone which can be distracting, if not impossible. Hans - you want the 1-5 voting system gone. Luc will boycott us if he can't vote 1-5. In our conversations this seems to be your biggest complaint, but satisfying that complaint would be a disaster in others' eyes.
We've added a lot of features to CodeProject, many of them small, or subtle or just things that make other things work in ways that mean you no longer notice them. This to me is how it should be. We are working on the article system and I will continue to work on our discussion and answer systems, as well as systems that promote the members themselves. They deserve it. I think, however, I should stop chasing small requests and simply let them lie, and instead just plow through the larger issues. I'm sure this will upset some for whom their complaint de jour is a showstopper but our most passionate and vocal members have shown there is no way I can make everyone happy (at least that's how it seems) so I should just make myself, as an author and as someone who answers questions, happy.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
|
|
|
|
|
That was a nice read... well explained. Progress of CP in short! 
BTW, I need to accpet that it's very clear that Luc's & Han's comment hurt you bad. But I doubt if that was their real intent.
|
|
|
|
|
Sandeep Mewara wrote: I need to accpet that it's very clear that Luc's & Han's comment hurt you bad
I'm not that thin skinned. Their comments make me feel I am not being transparent enough, and also frustrate me in that I may not be being loud enough in letting the community know the changes I'm making and the reasoning behind such changes. I just truly wish there were more hours in the day to get everything done, but the trick is simply to prioritise better and learn when to say no.
In any case this has generated some valuable discussions in the office.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
|
|
|
|
|
Chris Maunder wrote: Their comments make me feel I am not being transparent enough, and also frustrate me in that I may not be being loud enough in letting the community know the changes I'm making and the reasoning behind such changes
Ok. Got that.
Chris Maunder wrote: . I just truly wish there were more hours in the day to get everything done, but the trick is simply to prioritise better and learn when to say no
Chris Maunder wrote: In any case this has generated some valuable discussions in the office.
Oh.. more positives then... 
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks for a great message. Much appreciated. I can only wish you update or repeat this regularly. I learned a few things, and agree with most of what you said.
I agree there were good reasons to extend the existing capabilities, however I think I would have tried harder and stuck on to the simpler model if at all possible, both for the user's sake and the implementor's. "Do more without significantly adding code" would be the attempted motto.
I still wish there would be a unified way to handle articles and T&T (and blogs), as IMO they will continue to besiege each other's territory (T&T wanting ever more functionality: downloads, images, ...), some articles still tending to be rather short. As you explained the rationale now, I think I'd treat and store them all as one, provide several ways of entry (so the user picks what suits him best), automatically determine their type (real article, memo type, tip/trick, whatever; or maybe just size and hasDownloads), and list them any way the user wants.
And I still wish there would be a unified way to handle both forum threads and Q&A, as their border isn't clear and solid; what starts out as a simple question may turn into a real discussion, and what gets launched as a discussion opener could be cut short by a reply holding a link to an existing article that deals with all of it. So here too I would try and opt for one repository, possibly several ways for entry, and possibly several ways for listing, viewing, and adding replies/answers/solutions/comments.
Not sure what the future will bring us, new requirements and advancing insight will probably decide. However, no matter how things evolve, keep up the good work, and keep inviting and inspiring people to join and grow the community. Thanks again.
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
|
|
|
|
|
I completely agree with a lot of your points... a big one that I didn't even understand at first, is why there's two places to post questions (forums and Q&A) and they act so much differently, it does seem like it would be a lot of work to maintain both.
...but like you did say, I'd like to see all the good capabilities of one be in the other.
...on the other hand, I do appreciate what the site has to offer and am happy to help.
|
|
|
|
|
Albert Holguin wrote: I do appreciate what the site has to offer and am happy to help
Of course. That probably applies to everyone who visits sugs&bugs.
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
|
|
|
|
|
+1 to what Richard said.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
|
|
|
|
|
Code project provides a list of MVPs, but not a “ranking” member list, like top 1000 all-time, top 100 this year, and top 100 this month. So there are members with more than 100000 points to their “credit” that are hard to spot, and MVPs below 20000. It would also be nice if an icon was added to the profile of “high-performing” members.
Best regards
Espen Harlinn
Espen Harlinn
Senior Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services
|
|
|
|
|
The Who's Who page does some of that (allows you to sort members by how they rank in various categories, such as message count or reputation points).
Fixign now. | But who's fixing the fixign? |
|
|
|
|
|
The Who's Who page seems to be a bit outdated with regard to who is actually putting in an effort - not that these people aren't doing anything, but there is definitely a growing set of ommissions
Espen Harlinn
Senior Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services
|
|
|
|
|
Not sure what you mean by it being outdated. There are fields that allow you to select which items you want to sort by. As far as I'm aware, the values used for the sort are real time.
Fixign now. | But who's fixing the fixign? |
|
|
|
|
|
Hmm, I suddenly find myself blushing furiously – oops! 
It would still be cool to have this page say something about activity this year, and this month, as members like Christian Graus, kind of outshines just about everybody else, something he obviously deserves.
Well, it was just a thought
Espen Harlinn
Senior Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services
|
|
|
|
|
How about something like this[^]? Is that vaguely what you're after?
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
modified on Monday, July 18, 2011 10:38 AM
|
|
|
|
|
very interesting. A few comments, obviously:
1.
layout could be better, it really begs for a 2-D matrix aka table.
maybe two columns: one column for article info, one for forum info.
alternatively two rows: one articles, one forums.
2.
the time spans seem special and pretty counter-intuitive, e.g. I suspect "this week" really means anything since 8 midnights ago, Toronto time, hence spanning anywhere between 7 and 8 days.
ADDED
PS: where ever the page (and this message) says article, it probably means Q&A (thanks Sandeep)
/ADDED
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code. modified on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 5:29 AM
|
|
|
|
|
Can you please add this link in Feature[^] section?
|
|
|
|
|
When it's 100% acceptable to Luc with no further features, corrections or alterations, then gladly.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
|
|
|
|
|
|
You could have just said "no". 
Fixign now. | But who's fixing the fixign? |
|
|
|
|
|
Chris doesn't say "No".
He may call a bug a "feature", he may do or not do something "by design", but he seldom says "No".
And at times he is pretty good at "drowning the fish" ("de vis verdrinken" is a delaying tactic popular amongst politicians).
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
|
|
|
|
|
Wow Luc. I don't know what to say to that.
Not everyone wants exactly what you want, not everyone prioritises their requests in the same order as you do, and not everyone has 48hrs in the day.
We are a very small group, Luc, and work day and night to try and get through the ever growing, ever varied, ever changing list of things that need doing, including a great deal of time simply running the site that has nothing to do with fixes or new features.
If I'm not fast enough or if the things we work on don't match your expectations then I apologise.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
|
|
|
|
|
Chris Maunder wrote: work day and night to try and get through...
you do, I know, everyone knows.
I did say you seldom say "No". Maybe you should more often. Mostly on the looks, not the functionality, if you ask me.
And yes, sometimes I would like to get things better and sooner. The renewed search was one such feature (pretty good now, could still become better with a little effort). Not showing a "Delete" widget on non-leaf forum messages is one (half done). Code sniffing in forum messages (my article dates Jan-2010). A web service.
I appreciate the work you and your group is doing. The results are great; site traffic must prove that. However I also see a need to urge you to remain focused on core functionality and quality.
![Beer | [beer]](https://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/Images/beer.gif)
PS: there is another recent thread that fits in with this.
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles] Nil Volentibus Arduum
Please use <PRE> tags for code snippets, they preserve indentation, improve readability, and make me actually look at the code.
|
|
|
|
|
 Good Catch.
Regards - Kunal Chowdhury | Microsoft MVP (Silverlight) | CodeProject MVP | Software Engineer
|
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
