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Hi Bill,
I do indeed see the need to discuss the issue you are adressing. I've already adressed the issue with involved members that being to strict in wording, pedantery as you properly named it, is not really helpfull. There is a nice slogan which I try to adhere to:
Be strict in what you produce and be loose in what you accept.
This does however lead to problems as a "not so concise" question will likely bear an answer that might as well miss the target all together. Even if the answerer is not totally bent on giving OP a lecture on how it should really be done.
I would very much like an open discussion on how to properly deal with poorly phrased or even lazy questions without giving up on professional behaviour. Some times there is a call for "Liquid Nitrogen" and sometimes there is just a need for OP to refine his/her question in order to have us properly answer it.
Best Regards,
Manfred
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine."
Ross Callon, The Twelve Networking Truths, RFC1925
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Without even looking, I can guess who's rattled your cage on this one Bill.
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It's your self-exile from QA that "steps on my blue-suede shoes," daddy-o.
best, Bill
"Your theory is crazy, but it's not crazy enough to be true." Niels Bohr
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I have gone down this road in the past, and the only result was a growing level of frustration. I now try to follow a few simple rules:
- If the question is vague, ask for clarification.
- If I can offer an answer then add it to the Q&A.
- If someone tells me my answer is wrong, accept gracefully.
- If I see another answer that is wrong, try to add a constructive comment.
- If I see an answer like the one you are referring to, then ignore it.
Sometimes I succeed and sometimes I fail, but that's just life.
Unrequited desire is character building. OriginalGriff
I'm sitting here giving you a standing ovation - Len Goodman
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Sound advice.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011)
"It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011)
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I read everything in your links and have read a lot of your complaints and gripes in general, for some time now. I think you lecture a lot. You see what you perceive as an injustice and you go on and on about it, in hopes that the other party will concede to your wisdom and intelligence and admit their short comings.
In some ways you are just as bad as SA on this.
Chillax. Turn it down a thousand. You are not getting paid for this.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011)
"It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011)
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I'd don't think comapring Bill to SAK on this is at all accurate. For one thing, SAK's attitude probably turns away people from the site. I myself experienced this, when I was just begining, Take a look at my rep graph[^]. I posted a few question (total newbie) questions on the message boards using an old account. At the time I had no-one else to ask. I got a few SAK style answers and thought, well if they can't even help beginners, what is the point? You'll notice the graph is almost totally flat for about 5-6 years. The only thing that kept me coming back here was the fact that there are lots of helpful articles and answers around when googling. In 2009 I realised (probably a bit late actually), that I was able to help, and you can see the results, for a good while my Authority points were way higher than my debator. The point I am try to make is that I suspect this activity will drive away people who could contribute to the community in the future, Bill's won't
These sorts of comments also stamp on, what I came to realise is, CP's greatest assest: if the question is honest, people will take time to help, often debating the pros and cons with eachother. This is in stark contrast to,say, Stack Overflow, which is very much hit-an-run and IMO lends itself towards points-garnering rather than mulling a problem and getting to a good solution. I still prefer the message boards over the Q&A for this reason. Occaisionally, with a little coaxing, light can be shed on a poor original question and quite useful discussions had, this is much harder is someone has already left a message saying your question is too poor to be bothered with.
Although bit off topic, the final thing that you'll notice is the Authority points flatlining on my rep graph in the last six months or so. This is due to the fact that I object to being repeatedly told "See my answer" as my answer given is somehow deficient or incomplete. Note this is not the same as criticism of my answer: often the post referred to is little more than mine re-hashed (often with a few very minor points added), or an amalgam of several Answers of which mine has been one - all of the orginal posters decorated with a nice "See my answer" comment. Criticism I'll accept, how will I learn anything otherwise. The insidious implication that I am somehow wrong or lacking, when the poster largely agrees with me I won't, especially when this is expressed with such conviction that the original questioner will most likely take the comments as certainty.
What Bill is doing here is not in, any sense, like SAK's contribution over and above one member chiding another.
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I'd have to agree with you that sometimes often SA comes across rather harshly in his answers, however I would also point out that he may also draw people to the site because there are very few members who provide the level of detail and explanation in their answers that SA provides. While he may rub some the wrong way, I do appreciate the thoroughness of his solutions in spite of the abrasiveness.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
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Slacker007,
My concerns expressed on this Forum are related to a desire to be genuinely helpful in improving the quality of QA on CP which I perceive as in "dire need" of improving. To me, to see someone of the stature and intellect of Pete O'Hanlon withdraw from QA because of its "ambiance:" is a like a klaxon-horn going off !
On QA itself: do you think being a constructive CP member is not pointing out code that will crash, or is irrelevant to the OP's question.
I can't control your perceptions of my posts, and your judgements, or projections, about my character, but you might ask yourself why you need to pass such judgement.
The criticisms I express are about behavior, and code, not character. My frequent suggestions here ... on this forum ... have been carefully neutral in terms of any comment about any specific person.
And, indeed, I do feel I am being "paid" for being what I consider a pro-active member of CP and taking the risks and heat of saying exactly what I think: I've already been "paid" one-thousand times the value of anything I've contributed to CP by what CP has given to me over ten years !
That was one reason, a sense of "spiritual debt" (and a little guilt), I set out several months ago to dedicate a certain number of hours per week to answering QA questions I felt I could handle as best as I could, and, all-in-all, I am delighted with the experience and it has been so rewarding on many levels I never expected !
I'm sixty-eight years old, I've already seen my name in the about-box of well-known consumer software products, from Adobe, that sold in the milliions of US $, and I've been published by Addison-Wesley.
I am also a formerly licensed psychiatric social worker, who received a post-graduate fellowship at the NIMH for one-year to study and practice group-psychotherapy and psychodrama, and, at one point, was board certified by the American Board of Group Psychotherapy and Psychodrama as a practitioner. I know something about group dynamics, and the roles people play, and I cannot set aside that knowledge ...
.... even though I "abandoned" that first career in my early forties, after a few years in "academia," to take up programming ... for reasons I can't even claim to explain 
My true passion, at this point in my life, is my own original creative writing, but CP remains, for me, a most wonderful "playground" for the intellect.
I wish you the best, and can only hope your perceptions of my character may change to be more positive.
best, Bill
"Your theory is crazy, but it's not crazy enough to be true." Niels Bohr
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BillWoodruff wrote: I'm sixty-eight years old
Dang, I thought I was the GOM!
Unrequited desire is character building. OriginalGriff
I'm sitting here giving you a standing ovation - Len Goodman
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No hard feelings, Bill.
Just because I take issue with your extremely long winded explanations and lecture like speeches, doesn't mean that I don't value you as a productive member of this site, which I do.
It is only fair to you and no one else that I explain that when I compared you to SA, it was based on your lecture like approach and biased view points (my opinion, see context of my original post). To the best of my knowledge, I made no other comparisons about arrogance or rudeness, in which you are not...at least here on the site. If I gave "that" impression, then I am truly sorry.
I speak my mind, Bill. Anything else is unfathomable.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011)
"It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011)
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BillWoodruff wrote:
Or I will limit myself to brief clarifying questions to the OP which, if not responded to in 24 hours, I will then not further waste time.
Are you here for the rep-points or to help people? Do take in consideration that some people don't want to be "helped". If you want point, simply mark every post as an "answer" and tell people what they want to hear.
QED.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
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Eddie,
In the context of this thread, I can't understand the "question" you ask.
In fact, I experience your question: "Are you here for the rep-points or to help people?" as not being a question at all, but a form of some kind of accusation reminiscent of the old trick question: "how long has it been since you stopped beating your wife ?"
I know your opinions are expressed in this post somehow, but I cannot fathom them.
On this thread: I am here to express what I hope are constructive comments, and ideas, and observations, regarding improving CP QA, for the benefit of all members, and I believe this is the appropriate forum on CP to do so.
I am careful to state that everything I write on threads like this is simply my own opinion.
I don't think I've made any mention of rep-points on this thread, and fail to see the "linkage" that, apparently, your mind has created with some "polarized tension of opposite meanings" between "rep-points," and the idea of "helping other people."
respectfully, Bill
"Your theory is crazy, but it's not crazy enough to be true." Niels Bohr
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BillWoodruff wrote: Are you here for the rep-points or to help people?
"Does your mom know you're gay?"
I do love loaded questions.
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BillWoodruff wrote: "how long has it been since you stopped beating your wife ?"
I see your point.
BillWoodruff wrote: respectfully,
Bastard Programmer from Hell
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Hi ,
When I try to browse the online Need now coffeeshop sample in the "Store Locator: Help customers find you with Google Maps " article ,the link is taking me to a porn site and it looks like the API's /code is infected with a malware .Can this be fixed please as I would like to implement something similar to the saml;e in my project
Below is the link to the article
http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/18108/Store-Locator-Help-customers-find-you-with-Google
Thanks
modified 20-Feb-12 17:12pm.
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same here. Also the article itself appears somewhat dated. Google dropped the need for an API key when they deprecated the pre-smartphone/tablet version of their API. They changed a lot of details in how the API works. Most significantly, to run better on an ARM device it does a lot less stuff for you automatically.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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I tested the link a few times. There was no porn or malware or problems reported.
Thanks,
Sean Ewington
The Code Project
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If I hover my mouse over the rating stars in a Q&A question or solution, the popup does not get completed: it shows a slightly smaller blank window. If I then move the mouse away and back over the stars it gets shown correctly.
Chrome 17.0.963.56
Unrequited desire is character building. OriginalGriff
I'm sitting here giving you a standing ovation - Len Goodman
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Same problem occurs to me as well. Popup box shows the histogram on second mouseover. Using chrome 17.0.963.56 m.
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I was visiting this article http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/34491/Implementing-Audit-Trail-using-Entity-Framework-Pa
And noticed I could hit the rollback functionality and it actually rolled the article back, I doubt I am supposed to do this, I am not (to my knowledge) an editor for your site. IS this a bug? Seems to be a pretty serious one.
Christopher G. Lasater
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The article's restriction on who can edit it is set as "Platinum", which you are.
Use the power wisely.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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Why am i allowed to rate my article? I think i can rate multiple times for my article(not tested though but one time is working). I dont think anyone should be allowed to rate thr own article.
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