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> and now W8. It's not as bad as it seems.
It is so. Run away ... run away ... run very, very, VERY, far away.
(But 7 can be wrastled into submission, and brings some good things. Sadly, they didn't migrate the returned up arrow in win 8 explorer back to win 7!)
- in 7 UAC can really be turned off. In 8 is doesn't go all the way off - and causes untold grief.
I have vowed to never buy Windows again. If it's got 8, it's getting nuked, first thing. Any pain I experienced with Linux (Kubuntu == Windows) over several years does not equate to the pain I experienced with 8 in a few weeks.
> If you feel that you've lost any data you can remove the HD
I was going to reply the same at the time, however, assuming Dan to be an intelligent being, and after reading "can't even access my C: drive from recovery console," I didn't think I needed to tell him that. If the drive is gone, she's gone. Hopefully he's got good backups - restoring software and settings is such a PITA.
What I don't understand is ... XP has always been solid for me. Never had registry issues. Never been unable to at least boot. Lost umpteen other drives, but always been backups or replicas, so I replace the drive, resync, and get on with my day.
Can't say the same for win 7 or 8 or even Linux.
Puzzled. {It weren't broke ...}
- mind you, I keep OS on OS, data on data, and the twain do not meet. And I robocopy everything back and forth inside the house every night.
- and image the C: to D: before doing so. But have yet to need it.
Go figure, and YMMV.
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Hello Dan,
Please bear with this ignorant question: would it be possible to make virtual tasks work across tasklists--i.e., to copy a task from TDL file 1, and then paste it as reference in TDL file 2?
Thank you,
NT
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It's already implemented. Make sure you have File Link column selected. Rightclick on a task in say tasklist 1, choose Copy As-Task Link (full), then paste it into File Link field for your task in your tasklist 2. Done!
Alex
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Hello Alex,
Thank you for the response.
By "virtual task" I was referring to task reference, or task sync, rather than task link. When a task is copied and pasted "as reference" in the same tasklist, it is synced with the original task--i.e., any changes made to it, such as task completion or editing, are reflected in its original, and vice versa. I was just wondering if it would be technically possible to implement this most useful function across tasklists, so that tasks copied from one tasklist might be pasted into a second tasklist as virtual tasks that could sync with their originals in the first tasklist.
NT
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Sounds a bit complicated to me, never used such a feature ("virtual task") before so it's kind of difficult for me to imagine where I would possibly use it.. What is it for?
Alex
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Same task, two different lists, one is the master, one is a link (ghost) to the other?
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I have considered it, but there are significant technical issues that would have to be overcome which I am still thinking thru.
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Couple thoughts:
1. Current task list's task is static until an update button clicked? At all times read only in the current task. (At least initially, any feature implementation wise.)
2. mlo (I think) has a batch import facility. Paste into a box from the clipboard and it does it's thing. In essence, .csv import of one or multiple tasks into the current list. i.e. It must have magic for properly munging the incoming line to suit the current task list. Clicking the update button would essentially take a copy of the master task, similarly munge the task for the current list, and update the virtual view in this task?
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Is it possible to search within a folder that holds TDL files ? Every year I create a new file for tasks but in order to search in previous years file I have to open it..It will be great to search archive files even if they are not opened.
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You can use additional tools like Everything http://www.voidtools.com/[^]. It's free, simple and fast. In settings go to Tools-Options-Indexes-File Lists-Add.
Then In File Lists go to File List Editor-Edit-Add File(s).
Alex
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Well I know that there are many search tools but I'd like to search only my tdl files archive and without the need of another tool..
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In such a case you can choose a search tool suitable for you, tune it in for specific archived files and make it accessable via User Defined Tools in TDL.
çaçik wrote: without the need of another tool
I think it's barely achieved in any other app (f.i. how can you do a search in a MS Word document without opening it?).
Alex
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Seems to me I've come across notes on encoding issue in these forums.
I've seen editors unable to load a tdl related file, or load with two strange initial characters, sometimes only, sometimes as well.
If I change the 'utf-16' to 'utf-8' or ansi or something, and change the encoding, the files load into the editors correctly.
(I use Notepad++.)
Could someone explain the issues involved as to how they impact TDL use, including stylesheet development, such that I can cut and paste it into the wiki?
e.g. What's going on, and what to do about it / how to work around it. (Including any necessary reverses to work it back in.)
- presumably one way is to choose editors that understand {what} exactly?
- if a change is made to utf-8 or whatever, does it ever need to be changed back (lest something elsewhere become unhappy, later)?
.
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_BS_ wrote: load with two strange initial characters, These are called a 'BOM' are are Unicode identifying characters.
By default TDL encodes tasklists as Unicode to accept multi-lingual characters.
The 'File > Save As' dialog can be used to turn off Unicode-ness.
ps. I've not had a problem loading Unicode tasklists into Notepad++.
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.dan.g. wrote: p.s. I've not had a problem loading Unicode tasklists into Notepad++.
Sorry didn't mean to imply it in particular was.
Merely, so many tools, so many days, I have seen this in various apps.
Sorry, but "By default TDL encodes tasklists as Unicode to accept multi-lingual characters." is meaningless. Like saying I wrote Shazam in Arial (instead of Times New Roman). Still doesn't tell me what Shazam means.
A wiki bit would be good - when a file fails to load ("usually older code editors" ?), 'this' is the problem, 'this' is what you can do about it. When done beating on the file, you may need to do 'that' to get it back over 'there'. ('Lest your changes be misinterpreted at next load, or overwritten.' ?)
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_BS_ wrote: is meaningless It means that you can combine Arabic, Asian, Cyrillic and English languages in the same tasklist.
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I get that. What I mean is, the ramifications of that, or what to do with it, per the OP question / requested wiki article, isn't answered by what you've said. (However factually correct.)
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As to "ramifications", is this what you mean?
Open a TDL CSV with Excel.
Make a couple changes.
Save.
You get warned that you will lose formatting, which is fine.
The doc saves.
Now exit Excel.
It gives you the same warning.
Tell it to save.
It doesn't. Just exit Excel, you've already saved it.
I believe that has to do with the unicode.
Here's another "ramification".
Open the TDL CSV with notepad or wordpad.
Make a change and save.
It might not re-save as unicode.
Update the file with TDL.
Now view it.
It might look like Chinese. The first couple bytes that were removed get replaced and now double bytes are added where single bytes were before. The document is trashed on the top part because the next time anything looks at it, it tries to interpret every two byte as something meaningful - and it renders as Chinese (Big5). The top part of the file is trashed but the bottom looks fine because the two bytes up top are good and so is the multibyte data written later by TDL.
I've accidentally stumbled on this a few times but can't accurately describe how to repeat it because I really don't want to repeat it right now.
HTH
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> I really don't want to repeat it right now.
> believe that has to do with the unicode.
I don't think so. I think that's a spreadsheet thing. I see the same thing in both MS Office and Open/LibreOffice. I think it has more to do with you're saving as .csv and you're about to lose formatting, and it lets you know. Then, when exiting, it assumes you want to keep your work, probably in a native ('rich') format, defaults to .doc/.odt/.xls/.ods/.{whatever} [point is, not .csv], and warns you all over again. I don't believe this has anything to do with character set or unicode.
> As to "ramifications", is this what you mean?
Really, really, close, Thank you!
What I'd like to have in the wiki, presumably titled "Encoding", ("Yes, it's due to unicode."), this truth will bite you if you're -really- careless, here's how, here's why, and here's what you can do about it. i.e. After it's bitten you, do {these} things.
[I'm also recognizing that I'm confusing encoding, character sets, and probably something else. Whatever utf-16 vs utf-8 is.] Because of my uncertainty, I'm not comfortable just going ahead and writing a blurb. Nor do I wish to put something out there, someone take it as gospel, and get damaged before I get as far as making any corrections. Should I even ever become aware of them.
- and I'd like to be able to warn them off / which things are likely to do the bad deeds. I think (guessing) that means non-unicode aware editors / apps, likely those more than a few 'stylistic' versions old. e.g. It feels like xmlcookbook, xtrans, and xmlcopyeditor are all not only from a different era (pre-unicode?), they each themselves appear to be from different eras.
Like you, I don't remember where I got, when, with what (let alone what I did about it) - but coming out of it later I recalled it as being an issue, don't know the specifics, and thought it worthwhile to get something written down. So the next time it happens to me, *I* know where to go to figure out what's what. Too.
e.g. Having gotten gibberish, or two characters, with / without following characters, somewhere along the line, I believe I changed the encoding in Notepad++ (utf-8, ansi, ???), saved, reopened in whatever I was using, and got on with my day. Independently I probably changed utf-16 to utf-8 in the header. Don't know if that helped, made it all better, or made it worse. (I'm just so confused!)
Dan has nicely pointed out the first two funny characters are BOM. One inexplicable bit down - thanks. However, if I leave those characters alone and get on with my day, and resave - are they preserved? Of course, nobody knows (which editor I was using at the time, how it behaves, which environment, and nobody can know all possible combinations.)
I haven't noticed a case where TDL was unhappy with the resulting file - so I'm guessing TDL can roll with whatever its handed, and I'm guessing it puts out whatever it got. (But a new file by default will be unicode. Nice.) But these are guesses, and it would be nice to nail down the specifics in a wiki article - for the next poor schlob ... which will probably be me again. Given my luck.
- thanks to your note ... that was another aspect of confusion. Single byte vs multi-byte {stuff} [BIG5???]
= not that the user much cares what it is, they just want to know what to do about it, how to avoid it (the problem), and what to look for (criteria) when looking at an app / trying to avoid it.
So ...
TDL - Encoding and character sets...
TDL is a unicode app making use of the utf-16 character set (?) and {x} (?) - but will read most anything handed to it and save the same way. (?)
If you open or transform .tdl you will want to use a unicode/{x} app by preference, for compatibility and ease of use. e.g. Notepad++, msxsl, this that or the other thing.
If you view the file and get gibberish, your editor is not {xyz} aware. Either change editors, or use something like notepad++ to change the encoding to {abc} and save.
- if you view the file and only get two BOM {cue wp reference} characters ...
- if you view the file, get those two characters, and the rest of the file, you are (will be, may be?) good to go, just don't delete the first two characters. (Or can you?)
= test by ... closing / reopening / doing a {lmno} run. If the run is unsuccessful, you will need to change editors. Sorry.
If you choose not to do so, and instead use notepad++ to change the {ghi}, doing so will bite you {somewhere here down the road}, so before {going there}, change the {abc} back to {def}, beforehand.
Or something like.
-----
On a related, but separate note, a number of apps have reformatters, usually tidy. (Sadly they're not also fixing the style braces.) I've found such very handy. Course, different programs are using different options. So, yet another learning curve to overcome. (Yes, tidy config usually changeable somewhere within that particular editor.)
It would be useful to include in the above as to whether the use of a formatter will botch TDL somehow.
It would also be useful to note what TDL itself prefers / uses. e.g. Managing expectations - format to your liking, make a change in TDL, you will get {xyz [tidy settings equivalent} when you get back in.
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.Feels to me like an AUTHOR / MAINTAINER / MAINTAINEDBY list attribute would be useful.
Not precisely sure whether it should be a simple field, e.g. "Dan G.", or multi-line (much like an e-mail signature) where address, e-mail, web-site, etc. could be entered. Much like a CONTACT field, I suppose.
If you look at a file's properties in windows explorer, other candidate fields present themselves for consideration.
- is the (windows) file metadata available to a stylesheet? i.e. Present outside the internal schema of the actual file contents / apps control?
Are there standards for file properties? I can't help but think of Exif, XMP, or IPTC metadata (IPTC Information Interchange Model) for images? (Better than re-inventing the wheel.)
.
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How could a single list record be extracted in a stylesheet, then excluded from later 'all' processing?
- e.g. search for task title 'MAINTAINER' (category METADATA?), take the title of the next (sub-)task for actual value?
Such would make the concept user-extensible / not something Dan would have to maintain at every turn. In essence, custom list level fields.
Actually, a single task title = METADATA, with however many sub-tasks with one element per 'pair' would make some sense?
Sample stylesheet?
.
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TDL actually already supports tasklist-level metadata, the design intention being to allow importers (and other plugins) to embed domain-specific info in the tasklist which they could later read when exporting.
Same goes for tasks. The possible uses I considered would allow a mind-map plugin to store coordinate information, or a database plugin to store table-row keys (I'm currently working on an ODBC plugin).
The format (which I wasn't expecting to reveal) is:
<METADATA>
<KEY1>VALUE1</KEY1>
<KEY2>VALUE2</KEY2>
...
</METADATA>
Might be worth having a play with...
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(Aspect 1)
"(I'm currently working on an ODBC plugin)."
Does that mean you think the tdl database can be rendered in a structured form / relational database?
i.e. Possible to migrate away from xml in the future?
I ask / all I'm thinking here is there is a bevy of 3rd party tools surrounding most databases, and an apparent dearth of popularly comprehensible tools for xml.
Easy example, csv - from dbf a long solved problem. But you/someone had to write a similar xml to csv xsl, 'reinventing that wheel.'
If output is a sore point for tdl (and we all live and work in team / group environments), and if 'report writers' off other database sources is a solved problem, then changing underlying database ties you into those already solved problems and ecosystems.
What I don't know is whether the inherent self-referent / reentrant nature of the data (sub-tasks) is even possible in other underlying database forms.
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_BS_ wrote: i.e. Possible to migrate away from xml in the future? I've no plans to do this (unfortunately for you ) which is why it's a plugin, but I can definitely understand that people may prefer a more centralised data storage system. We'll have to see how it turns out in practice.
_BS_ wrote: What I don't know is whether the inherent self-referent / reentrant nature of the data (sub-tasks) is even possible in other underlying database forms. Currently I make one assumption in this, and that is that the parent of a given task is defined by storing the parent's database 'Task' key as a column in the 'Tasks' table.
I also don't use SQL directly to read the task hierarchy, I just pull all the required row data with a simple SELECT statement, sort the rows to ensure that parents always preceed children and then build the tree sequentially.
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> I've no plans to do this (unfortunately for you )
Don't mean this to come out as an attack - not unfortunately for me, for everyone. And all I really mean by that is, you yourself have comments in this forum that you regretted going with XML in the first place.
- it being something that seemingly has given you grief every step of the way, since.
(Not that I'm disagreeing with the choice, hindsight is 20:20. Another good idea the execution of which didn't pan out.)
[For those same ideas/reasons, Linux has still not moved to a centralized information bit like the windows registry - textual .ini file equivalents everywhere have just worked out too well for everyone. Despite their shortcomings. I don't expect that to change any time soon. Why would anyone not think human readable XML wasn't a good idea. Especially given btree's success.]
How many inquiries / how much time have you spent over the years, just in 'printing' or 'stylesheet' issues, alone? Just non-productive, gets old really fast, time suckage, in even having them cross your monitor, wading through the distraction, let alone in answering them?
> I can definitely understand that people may prefer a more centralised data storage system
People (users) don't care what's under the hood, they just want to get what they need to do done, and get on with their day. So you could store the data as smoke signals, for all they care, as long as they can get on with their day quickly. However, given every user (it seems) thinks their own special printed output format is the cat's meow, and the learning curve presented by XML and resulting impediment preventing users from getting on with their day, it begins to matter, let alone to them.
Assuming there is 'something else' that would let them get on with that, if there were a different back end.
Given the other Freemind thread, I do wonder ... how much effort would it take for TDL to use the 'Freemind' back end instead? IIRC, it's also XML, and it's backend should be a super-set of TDL's. Should it not only be just about a matter of change a header file and get on with your day? Fields are fields, databases are databases. The TDL special sauce is not the database, but the data relationships and processing, data interpretation and business rules, not data storage mechanisms. (?)
And would not accomplishing such, instantly let you and your users leverage all the other richness that will be present in that community? Such as reports, data integrity, documentation, community - and take a load off of you for a lot of the fiddly bits most every ecosystem needs? (Let alone bring a richness of functionality and simplicity that Freemind, et al, so desperately needs, itself.)
Even just using a schema - without it, how do you do data integrity checks? With it, XML tools gain an understanding of the data structure, for you to leverage and not reinvent wheels. You aren't (apparently) interested in exposing the user tools, necessary by your own comment to be able to filter data, via command line, and encourage the use of 3rd party tools for direct interpretation of the .tdl data file. But without the schema adherence, those very same 3rd tools are hamstrung in their usefulness - so this is all very confusing. Chicken and egg, even.
> I also don't use SQL directly to read the task hierarchy, I just pull all the required row data with a simple SELECT statement, sort the rows to ensure that parents always preceed children and then build the tree sequentially.
SQL, select, it's all still a rose. [Please substitute (generic) database query wherever you see 'SQL'. It's all fields and rows, regardless of the specific language used to talk to it.]
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