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jdunlap wrote:
Are you sure you put the RAM in? If you get no POST, the most likely possibilities are (1) you didn't put the RAM in or (2) you didn't plug the speaker into the Mobo. The only other possibility I can think of is if the Mobo were to be "fried" (which it might be).
Yes. Known good RAM and the speaker is plugged in. MB probably is fried.
jdunlap wrote:
Wish I were there. I have experience with putting together PC's, both old and new (although most of the old PC's I worked on are now "laid to rest").
Wish you or someone else was here too.  I have pulled apart and fixed many PC's as well as building numerous from scratch. Unfortunately this one has me stuffed. 
Michael Martin
Australia
mjm68@tpg.com.au
"I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end."
- Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Where'd you get the hardware? You don't have to answer if you don't want to. 
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Jesus
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
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jdunlap wrote:
Where'd you get the hardware? You don't have to answer if you don't want to.
The 233MMX mentioned in the PS came from my wife's cousin's step-brother. All the other stuff came from one of the participants in my Work For the Dole project. He does a lot of upgrades on the side that the unemployment office doesn't know about. He didn't need or want the stuff and said 'Here you go'.
I see him again Wednesday but am some what impatient and thought 'I must be doing something obvious and stupid'. I was just hoping someone could point out what.
Michael Martin
Australia
mjm68@tpg.com.au
"I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end."
- Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Michael Martin wrote:
the speaker is plugged in
That particular problem will never prevent a PC from booting.
"Please don't put cigarette butts in the urinal. It makes them soggy and hard to light" - Sign in a Bullhead City, AZ Restroom
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Roger Wright wrote:
That particular problem will never prevent a PC from booting
But if, say, the video card isn't working, and the speaker isn't plugged in, you can't hear the POST beeps.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Jesus
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
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 Oddly enough, no darts tonite. Just sitting home watching 2010 - all the way thru this time. Awesome movie!
Which version of Windows are you trying to install? The AMD board was current when Win95 was the latest and greatest. And I'm very surprised that you managed to make it work at all with PC-133 RAM - EDO was the standard back then. MBs back then still used INT 13 for disk control, too, and that may be related to the IDE problem. The Celeron board is a loser... don't waste your time on it. No-name boards with second-class processors are always a pain, and not worth the trouble.
The P-III board, as you mention, is the winner in the group. What is the power rating of the supply? The older supplies were sometimes as low as 175W, and that's far too little to run a P-III. Use your multimeter to monitor the supply voltages when you power up. If you see any significant sag (> 5%) try a bigger supply. AT supplies are hard to come by, though, and you might be better off just buying a new case.
RAM incompatibility is something that concerns me on each of these boards - they're all too old to use PC-133 RAM! Another is that they all are old enough that the onboard battery for maintaining the CMOS settings is likely dead. You're not going to get a clean boot if the battery is flat. Your best bet, I think, is to keep the case and cards, but buy a newer MB. They're quite cheap these days...
I've got to get some sack time - it's 1:00 AM here - but I'll think on your dilemma and review it tomorrow... I'm tired, having spent the afternoon responding to a call for help from one of the computer shops in town. They spent 16 hours trying to solve a networking problem on WinXP, then called me. An hour of listening to their tech explain what he'd tried, ten minutes of looking over the settings on the network, and two clicketies later it was working perfectly, and I split the fee for their two days' work. Some days life is good...
"Please don't put cigarette butts in the urinal. It makes them soggy and hard to light" - Sign in a Bullhead City, AZ Restroom
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Roger Wright wrote:
Oddly enough, no darts tonite. Just sitting home watching 2010 - all the way thru this time. Awesome movie!
Good for you.
Roger Wright wrote:
Which version of Windows are you trying to install? The AMD board was current when Win95 was the latest and greatest. And I'm very surprised that you managed to make it work at all with PC-133 RAM - EDO was the standard back then. MBs back then still used INT 13 for disk control, too, and that may be related to the IDE problem. The Celeron board is a loser... don't waste your time on it. No-name boards with second-class processors are always a pain, and not worth the trouble.
Windows 98SE, they both have 168 pin slots, consider them ignored.
Roger Wright wrote:
The P-III board, as you mention, is the winner in the group. What is the power rating of the supply? The older supplies were sometimes as low as 175W, and that's far too little to run a P-III. Use your multimeter to monitor the supply voltages when you power up. If you see any significant sag (> 5%) try a bigger supply. AT supplies are hard to come by, though, and you might be better off just buying a new case.
250W, how do I monitor the supply voltages? Not kidding when I said I was a novice with the tools but had never used it. It's an ATX power supply, if it was AT I have heaps lying around at work. After paying the bills and essentials each fortnight I have $50.00 left over. I haven't made one payment for my sons school fees yet this year either. I cannot afford a new case even though I can get one for about $50.00. Unforseen sh*t eats this and more up each pay. Only the extra work I get sees us through. Not much of that lately though.
Roger Wright wrote:
RAM incompatibility is something that concerns me on each of these boards - they're all too old to use PC-133 RAM! Another is that they all are old enough that the onboard battery for maintaining the CMOS settings is likely dead. You're not going to get a clean boot if the battery is flat. Your best bet, I think, is to keep the case and cards, but buy a newer MB. They're quite cheap these days...
The MS-6199VA supports 133MHz FSB and associated CPU's, shouldn't be a problem. See last paragraph s to why new MB is out of the question also.
Roger Wright wrote:
I've got to get some sack time - it's 1:00 AM here - but I'll think on your dilemma and review it tomorrow... I'm tired, having spent the afternoon responding to a call for help from one of the computer shops in town. They spent 16 hours trying to solve a networking problem on WinXP, then called me. An hour of listening to their tech explain what he'd tried, ten minutes of looking over the settings on the network, and two clicketies later it was working perfectly, and I split the fee for their two days' work. Some days life is good...
Glad to hear something work out in your favour. I will take the machine into work tomorrow (Sunday afternoon your time) and monitor the thread for advice and to post questions back. Thanks.
Michael Martin
Australia
mjm68@tpg.com.au
"I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end."
- Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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As a start, here's the manual[^] for that MS-6199VA MB. The site also has drivers and BIOS updates for their boards.
One thing that stands out is the lack of a power supply fan with this MB installed. Try unplugging the MB (but leaving everything else connected) and turning on power. If the fan in the supply runs you have an excessive load with the MB connected, or something related to the MB is causing a short to ground. It sounds as if the supply is starting, then shutting down as it should to prevent burning up. Check the MB mounting carefully for any possible contact with the chassis, and recheck the cables. If you don't find anything, there could be a short on the MB itself and there's little you can do to fix that.
Measuring supply voltages is not easy; they don't provide test points on circuit cards anymore. It's best to measure at the load, in this case the motherboard, and getting on the supply leads is difficult. I've had good luck sliding a straightened paper clip into the wire-entry side of the plastic connector as a measurement point, but you have to be extremely careful to keep it away from anything conductive (case, circuit board traces, other connectors, etc.) while the power is on.
On your multimeter, the black wire is the negative lead; connect it to a good ground (a paper clip again comes in handy). If the frame of the chassis is coated, rather than shiny bare metal, connect it to a screw that pierces the frame. If you have a DMM you won't need to move the ground connection, but if you have an analog-type meter, you'll have to swap leads for negative voltages - the red test lead must always be connected to the more positive signal to prevent damage to the meter. Set the meter for VDC measurement - don't use any other setting while power is on! The range, if selectable, should be 20VDC. Use the red lead as the test probe.
The wires on the power connector at the MB are color-coded. Red is +5V, yellow is +12V, orange is +3.3V, blue is -12V, white is -5V, and black is ground. There are others, but these are the main ones. AT-style power supplies are different, and there's a secondary version of the ATX-type that uses an additional second 6-pin connector, but this is the basic ATX scheme.
These nominal voltages should not vary by more than about 5% max when power is on. If they range higher, there is a problem with the supply. Lower indicates a bad supply, an excessive load, or a wrong connection. Again, though, the lack of a supply fan running is a screaming indicator of a dead short to ground, or a reversed connector. I wouldn't bother checking any voltages until you resolve that problem.
"Please don't put cigarette butts in the urinal. It makes them soggy and hard to light" - Sign in a Bullhead City, AZ Restroom
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Thanks for the information Roger. I couldn't bring the machine into work today so will have to wait until tonight to try this out.
I have a Digital MultiMeter so from what you say I won't have to change leads over. My probes don't have alligator clips, they are straight pointy rods. Can I just stick them into the plastic connector holes for testing?
That was the manual I already had but thanks for pointing it out.
Michael Martin
Australia
mjm68@tpg.com.au
"I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end."
- Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Michael Martin wrote:
Can I just stick them into the plastic connector holes for testing?
So long as you can do so without them touching each other, or accidentally touching adjacent contacts, yes. It isn't easy to get them that far into the power connectors, though, which is why I find a paper clip handy.
The more I think about it the more convinced I am that there's a short somewhere... the behavior of the power supply, lights, and supply fan is exactly what should happen when a short is present. The supply detects an excess current flow at startup and quickly shuts itself down; it won't do that indefinitely without damage. Something you can do while at home is to disconnect everything from the supply except one connector (switching supplies can become unstable with no load); the floppy disk drive is a good one to leave connected. Turn on the supply and observe the results. Shut down and connect another device, then repeat the power cycle. Make notes of which item you connect each time and, as the list grows it will become obvious which device has the problem - most likely it's the MB, but it could be one of the fans, too. Fans (and most inductive components), along with diodes and resistors, usually fail by opening. Transistors, ICs, and capacitors usually fail by shorting.
"Please don't put cigarette butts in the urinal. It makes them soggy and hard to light" - Sign in a Bullhead City, AZ Restroom
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OK, I'm a real slow learner with a memory alzheimers patient wouldn't accept.
In you post before the post I'm replying too (are you confused yet), you mentioned disconnecting the MB and seeing if the power supply fired. Even though I had previously explained this was an ATX power supply and needed to be plugged into the MB to work I still agreed to try it. Of course it didn't work and I could have slapped myself when I looked at the board. If it was an AT power supply your test would have been great.
I didn't get much of a chance to tinker tonight as I was sent on a sh*tty errand by my wife tonight an it wasted 2.5 hours of my life.
Tomorrow (maybe night) I will pull the MB out of the machine like I did tonight. Instead of just checking all the connections and unscrewing the MB to check for cracks and that the little metal feet that hold it off the case weren't touching what they shouldn't. I will sit it on a piece of cardboard so I know it can't be shorting. I will also get a paperclip and merrily play away as per your instructions.
Failing that I will just walk into a nicely setup programming company, whack some programmer up the side of the head with a keyboard and take their computer and save myself the hassle.
Michael Martin
Australia
mjm68@tpg.com.au
"I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end."
- Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Oops, you're right - I totally forgot the soft start on the ATX supply. It's an active low signal on the supply connector. If you locate pin 14 on the 20-pin power connector and short it to ground (either pin 13 or 15, adjacent to it) the supply will be enabled. Leaving it open or connecting it to +5V will disable it.
That also brings to mind another possible problem source; if this line is being pulled high on the MB, or isn't making a clean connection, that too could cause the symptoms you describe. Check the condition of pin 14 on the cabla and the MB looking for a bent or missing pin, or a broken trce on the MB.
"Ask not for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee..."
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Roger Wright wrote:
Oops, you're right - I totally forgot the soft start on the ATX supply. It's an active low signal on the supply connector. If you locate pin 14 on the 20-pin power connector and short it to ground (either pin 13 or 15, adjacent to it) the supply will be enabled. Leaving it open or connecting it to +5V will disable it.
Stop showing off Roger and speak VB to me.  Do you mean simply placing a wire between pin 13 and 14 on the cable power connector or in some other way connecting them?
How do I tell which is pin 1. Assume I am looking at the cable side power connector viewing the female metal connectors. The little plastic latch thingy is on the left.
Roger Wright wrote:
That also brings to mind another possible problem source; if this line is being pulled high on the MB, or isn't making a clean connection, that too could cause the symptoms you describe. Check the condition of pin 14 on the cabla and the MB looking for a bent or missing pin, or a broken trce on the MB.
What does pulling high mean?
OK so check the end of the cable and make sure all the female connections are there and in good order. Also check the MB and ensure all the pins are there in the power conector.
What is trce meant to be when it is typed correctly.
01:15 here, off to bed once I reply to a couple of posts in the Lounge.
How did you know all this stuff about the power supply and other hardware type sh*t?
Michael Martin
Australia
mjm68@tpg.com.au
"I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end."
- Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Michael Martin wrote:
Do you mean simply placing a wire between pin 13 and 14
Yup. Any black wire on the connector will do, but 13 and 15 seemed to be least likely to cause other problems.
Michael Martin wrote:
How do I tell which is pin 1
There's a couple of ways - the easy one is to look at the MB for a '1' next to one of the connector pins and match that up with the plug. The other is to look at the wiring pattern on the connection. The ATX pinout is:
+3.3V(Org) 11 1 +3.3V(Org)
-12V(Blu) 12 2 +3.3V(Org)
GND(Blk) 13 3 GND(Blk)
PS-ON(Grn) 14 4 +5V(Red)
GND(Blk) 15 5 GND(Blk)
GND(Blk) 16 6 +5V(Red)
GND(Blk) 17 7 GND(Blk)
-5V(Wht) 18 8 PWR-OK(Gry)
+5V(Red) 19 9 5Vsb(Pur)
+5V(Red) 20 10 +12V(Yel)
Michael Martin wrote:
What is trce meant to be when it is typed correctly.
When typed correctly, trace means a copper path etched on the circuit board. Typed incorrectly it means Roger should have taken typing classes instead of wasting all those years learning engineering so he'd have a job today.
Michael Martin wrote:
How did you know all this stuff about the power supply and other hardware type sh*t?
Generally, a degree in electronics engineering. More specifically, a great book called "Troubleshooting, Maintaining, and Repairing PCs" by Stephen J. Bigelow.
Michael Martin wrote:
What does pulling high mean?
Raising a signal to a logic '1' voltage - 5 volts generally, though CPUs operate internally at a lower voltage.
"Ask not for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee..."
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i'm not a developer but i try to ask for help here.
i'm looking for any solution on change the built-in taskswitcher of windows. i know the stupid powertoy pack includes a taskswitcher but that one isn't working properly.
the window snapshot is a good idea in it but it's slow.
i tried enlightenment and found a few very useful things there (window metrics counter while resizing and moving windows, iconbox) --> i'm wondering is there any standalone taskbar replacement (like am productions' traymodule) which is similiar to enlightenment's iconbox. what about this windowmetrics counter? it's hard to believe there's nobody tried to port these functions to windoze.
thank you for your attention,
on
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I have tried to get some help from microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware with no luck so I thought I would try my fellow cpians.
I have a strange situation, I think, with an external hard drive.
I have an 80GB external firewire hard drive which I connect to my Sony Vaio
laptop running Windows XP Pro using a 6-pin to 4-pin cable. It appears that
Windows has located the drive just fine because I have been able to
initialize and format it and it shows up as drive F:. Two strange things are
happening though.
1. All of the text in Windows explorer with regards to the
external drive are blue. For example, the label "Disk (F:\)" in the "folders
pane" is blue, the text for folders in the right pane are blue etc. Does
this mean something?
2. If I start my computer with the hard drive connected
and turned on Windows will run Check Disk in an endless loop. So, I have to
start the computer, then when Windows is all booted up I can then turn on
the hard drive.
Does anyone have any insight into this? 
Mark Sanders
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Mark Sanders wrote:
1. All of the text in Windows explorer with regards to the
external drive are blue. For example, the label "Disk (F:\)" in the "folders
pane" is blue, the text for folders in the right pane are blue etc. Does
this mean something?
I think you will find that Windows has formatted the drive and enabled compression. To test this Right Click on the F:\ and then click on Properties. I think you will find that at the bottom there will be a selected check box next to Compress drive to save disk space. If you unselect this and click Apply and wait a while the compression capablity will be turned off and the colour will return to black.
The blue colouring is caused by a selection made in Folder Options. Under the View tab is a selection Display compressed files and folders with alternate color.
All in all harmless but best to turn it off as you have 80GB anyway and if you connect it to another computer it may not be able to read it.
Mark Sanders wrote:
2. If I start my computer with the hard drive connected
and turned on Windows will run Check Disk in an endless loop. So, I have to
start the computer, then when Windows is all booted up I can then turn on
the hard drive.
No idea, sounds weird though.
Michael Martin
Australia
mjm68@tpg.com.au
"I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end."
- Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Windows file explorer in blue means "shared"
The other thing ??????
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No. In NT/2K/XP, it means "compressed to save space".
------- signature starts
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
Please review the Legal Disclaimer in my bio.
------- signature ends
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Is there a way to stop an application from trying to reinstall? I have applied the patch for MSDE and everytime I register a server for DCOM the box pops up trying to install MSDE. the thing is MSDE runs fine and is fully installed.
John
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By default, XP HE only has simple file sharing enabled. The user can then manually enable regular file sharing. In my installation program, I would like to determine if this is the case, and then tell the user how to enable regular file sharing.
Is there any way to programatically detect if simple file sharing is the only method available? I think the settings are stored in the SAM portion of the registry - so that is out. But I thought there might be a way to infer this information.
Thanks,
Mike
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I need to do an install of a VFW codec and because of the particular circumstances I need it to happen via a RunOnce registry entry.
The problem is that command line I put in the registry entry doesn't work but the same command line works fine from a shell.
"rundll32.exe setupapi.dll,InstallHinfSection DefaultInstall 132 c:\progra~1\path\to\my\inffile.inf"
I get a message that it
"Cannot find the file "rundll32.exe setupapi.dll,InstallHinfSection DefaultInstall 132 c:\progra~1\path\to\my\inffile.inf" (or one of its components).
What am I screwing up?
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Remove the quotes in the registry entry. The message is saying that Windows is treating the entire command line as one filename.
"Please don't put cigarette butts in the urinal. It makes them soggy and hard to light" - Sign in a Bullhead City, AZ Restroom
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Hmmm. That's curious. I was sure that I read somewhere in the MSDN pages that the entry had to have quotes around it.
Oh well. I'll give that a go. Thanks.
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