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Your description sounds exactly like what I have had in mind for years now. And I agree--let's do it! I'm looking forward to your ideas--I don't have anything concrete in mind except the vision, and you were right on target with stand alone jobs that can be re-dispatched, etc.
Marc
Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"
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I get so tired of writing code. I'd like to take my database schema, hook it up to the GUI, add little lightning bolt icons for events, wire them up, have an arrow go off to a workflow process that's a box that if I double click on it, it drills down into the workflow specifics (OK, maybe there's some real code there, maybe not!), I'd like to drop little spools of thread to indicate what processes are worker threads, visually diagram loops, states, and data triggers, have hardware streams really look like streams in a pipe or bucket brigade or whatever where I can attach different process boxes, etc. Same thing for data in a workflow process. Visually see where all the data is being pulled from, when, how, and where the processed stuff goes (back to DB, GUI, out a port, TCP/IP, etc). With IL, you should be able to generate all the code behind the stuff and good, if not great, performance.
I did something like this for a very specific application once. It was a set of core functions for experimenting with different compression algorithms. You could split the data stream, convert bytes to bits and back, run length encode, tupple encode, Hadamard transform, etc. It was great fun stringing together little process boxes and watch it all work. Generalizing this to a truly visual development methodology would be so cool (I think). Especially the drill down capability.
I also put together a nifty little database to GUI interface that looked at the foreign key relationships and figured out how to construct the SQL statements to do things like populate a GUI from a selected item. Saved tons of coding time, and could be done completely visually. C#'s DataSet's et al are great, but too much damn code.
Marc
Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"
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I like the idea of a common GUI libray for Windows and .NET and that is huge project on its own. But, I also like to see more useful tools for ASP.NET. It is a real pain having to code a GUI multiple times!
For me the Win32 platform by itself is pretty much dead. So this may not apply. But in my world I do a lot of ASP.NET and WinForms Applications. The pain is that I have to build completely different GUIs for both. How about a libary that can make this process easier and also add benifit to an application where even an end user could adjust their presentation layer if they want to post-production?
Common GUI:
Common Control Library - Have a set of controls that have the exact same interfaces for both Web or WinForm. Ths code inside the presentation layer would be the same for both. Controls would give the same appearence but maybe with a setting on a control to determine if a lighter weight version of the control should be used (less graphics and control if bound by bandwidth) but still remain transparently identical to the calling code.
Along with the custom controls, there should be some form of data validation that works exactly the same for both web and WinForm.
Maybe even have an option to use an IE base view for WinForm apps and build embedded ASP.NET apps. That could cut down the time involved and still make both look the same.
It would be so cool if a person could build a Portal application that has all the functionality of something like .NETNuke or IBuySpy portal with forums, polls, etc. all based inside of an application using heavy graphics if desired.
Think of just having a grid that can work the same for Web/WinForm! I know there is a differnce due to bandwidth and client browser levels but if the issues are examined carefully, there may be common ground that would allow them to act the same on both without much sacrifice on either.
Layout Manager - Builds the WinForm window or web page based on XML configuration data either embedded or in a file. This file would contain all the settings for any of the controls on the window including position, skins, defaults, etc. An editor for this would have to be put together which could also be used post production on an application to change the appearance without changing any code (somewhat like a DialogResource started out to be). This XML file should allow allow for "includes" or something of that nature to provide decent visual inheritance.
And while there, might touch on a custom data binding so that a person does not have to rely on the .NET internal buggy databinding.
Well, this is an idea of what could really be a cool cross between an application framework, a GUI control library and a web designer.
Oh yeah, I forgot, for those that have never done web work, it would allow them to build a WinForm app, make a few adjustments and have a web application running!
Rocky Moore <><
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Rocky Moore wrote:
Common Control Library - Have a set of controls that have the exact same interfaces for both Web or WinForm. Ths code inside the presentation layer would be the same for both. Controls would give the same appearence but maybe with a setting on a control to determine if a lighter weight version of the control should be used (less graphics and control if bound by bandwidth) but still remain transparently identical to the calling code.
I have a couple articles on that:
http://www.codeproject.com/cs/miscctrl/DynamicForms.asp[^]
http://www.codeproject.com/cs/miscctrl/DynFormPartII.asp[^]
Want to work with me on developing them further (after a redesign of the initial concept, I should think!)
Rocky Moore wrote:
Builds the WinForm window or web page based on XML configuration data either embedded or in a file.
I'm almost finished with the next article in the AAL series that uses XML for GUI generation. The last one, http://www.codeproject.com/cs/menu/AAL-4.asp[^] uses XML to generate menus (I'll need to send you a better version of the source if you're interested in this).
Rocky Moore wrote:
the .NET internal buggy databinding
Buggy how? I've dabbled with it a bit with the XML Data Editor I put together. Seemed fine, except what pisses me off is that you have to press the Tab key for it to recognize that a field changed in value. Probably can be fixed, but I didn't bother looking.
Rocky Moore wrote:
Oh yeah, I forgot, for those that have never done web work, it would allow them to build a WinForm app, make a few adjustments and have a web application running!
Exactly. The worst thing though is the state stuff. Have to figure that part out. Anyways, want to work together on your idea?
Marc
Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Buggy how? I've dabbled with it a bit with the XML Data Editor I put together. Seemed fine, except what pisses me off is that you have to press the Tab key for it to recognize that a field changed in value. Probably can be fixed, but I didn't bother looking.
There are several things that cause problems. Once of them is when working with tab pages. Another once that is more of a hassle than a bug, when using multiple comboboxes with that may select key values and changing one changes the others. The one that bit me the most is the rebinding needed if you should use different datasets. You can to clear and merge your sets to maintain the binding. There were others but those are the ones still fresh in the old memory 
Marc Clifton wrote:
I have a couple articles on that:
....
Want to work with me on developing them further (after a redesign of the initial concept, I should think!)
I missed those. Now I have more reading to do Browsing over them though, it appears we are in the same ballpark. I did not see how you use the controls yet (still have to look through them). I would think it would be easier to use custom built controls that all share the same common interfaces regardless of web or WinForm. Yeah know, kind of like splitting the presentation layer away from the core of the control and have it implement the actual IO dependant on platform. There may not be enough in common though to justify it.
As an example, if you have to add a custom column to a grid control, your code for the display has to be completely different. It may be hard, but imagine if the code you wrote for a window was actually the same code as you would write for the web page (at least the code behind). Same events, same contols interfaces, same databinding. It really just pushes the "presentation layer" down lower into the controls themselves.
I may be way out there though, I have not spent enough time examining what is actually possible.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Exactly. The worst thing though is the state stuff. Have to figure that part out. Anyways, want to work together on your idea?
State is a problem in many ways Actually, it doesn't sound like just my idea, seems the goal is in both camps Would be interesting!
Rocky Moore <><
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Basically a source control system analyzing code to eliminate duplicates. Thus an improvement to algorhytm X will be reflected in all projects using the pattern of algorhytm X.
<a TITLE="See my user info" href=http:
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leppie wrote:
Thus an improvement to algorhytm X will be reflected in all projects using the pattern of algorhytm X.
Isn't that already a feature in Source Control Programs?
I use shared files in Source Safe, and get exactly that...
- Anders
Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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OK , you learn something everyday  But how intellegent is this? Or does a paper clip "notify" you?
<a TITLE="See my user info" href=http:
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It's not intelligent at all, but it works perfectly when sharing files between projects
- Anders
Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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I was really hoping for the paperclip though!
"It looks like you are attempting to write some code that failed a few weeks ago. Click yes to replace with working code or No to continue making the same mistake again."
<a TITLE="See my user info" href=http:
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Program it, set it up, and sell products that we all would be interested in. And paying due royalties to Chris, of course.
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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I would like to see some development in the WTL area. It would be nice to see some of the controls like Chris Maunder's Grid control ported to WTL. WTL is a powerful library but there is a lot you give up when choosing to move to WTL. Also I would like to see some one develop a doc / view framework for WTL.
John
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A code snippet library sharing app and service, thing. Naturally with a Visual Studio add-in. There are a lot of them out there but after having spent a week downloading and testing most of them the common problem is they are nice but hardcore programmers will hate them. You know, the command line type of guy. Most of them are a pain to setup and have a bunch of features that hardcore okes will never use. It needs to be something really slick, something focused and direct that works like a hardcore chap expects it to.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa
Chris Losinger wrote:
i hate needles so much i can't even imagine allowing one near The Little Programmer
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A project management system. Phase tracking, bugs, document storage, client feedback area etc. Not a source control system, but a system for the management of a project that both managers/clients and the developers are happy with. We all bitch about management of projects, so lets do something about it for once.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa
Chris Losinger wrote:
i hate needles so much i can't even imagine allowing one near The Little Programmer
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I like the idea but interesting name for it. It would get lots of attention. 
-Steven "the yellow dart" Hicks
CPACodeProjectAddict
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I'd be curious about a rough white paper / PPT presentation / "how PMS will change your world" speech. i.e. what you thing a PMS could do for the various stakeholders in a project. Share your ideas!
"Der Geist des Kriegers ist erwacht / Ich hab die Macht" StS
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen
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Some type of medical visualization software? Would be a large project that would require a large number of people.
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empty message
reply if you have ideas on how ot handle SC for CPP1
Jason Henderson My articles
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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SubVersion[^]?
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Jesus
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
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SubVersion is not at "one point oh" yet. I wouldn't recommend using it for anything serious just yet..
--
I'm the figure head on a ship of fools
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You are aware that the Subversion developers themselves are using it to version control the Subversion project?
It's looking pretty good and they're in beta phase now
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire!
Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)!
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