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Like Marc, I would also like the teams to be established before we make the design documents for the project. I think it would be a good idea if there is a couple of persons working on those.
Anyone interested in helping me with all the writing?
I mean, English is not my native language, and I'm not the best writer in the world...
- Anders
Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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I'll be glad to help out, although I don't know a whole lot about versioning/source control.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi
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Sorry for the confusion, but I think that's how I have it outlined, or at least how I envisioned it.
I'd like you to write up an abstract using a template file I'd like to send you, summarizing your own ideas of the project. Once that is finished, send it back to me for posting approval on this forum. (I know I'm the forum posting Nazi, but somebody has maintain control.  )
You will then get suggestions for improvement, etc. but you're the leader and don't have to use any of them. After taking comments for a day or so, we'll start the project article series and begin building teams.
After that, will be the design phase where you write up design docs.
Jason Henderson My articles
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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Jason Henderson wrote:
Sorry for the confusion, but I think that's how I have it outlined, or at least how I envisioned it.
Woops, I was too quick, posting before reading all the other posts
- Anders
Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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Jason Henderson wrote:
forum posting Nazi
Yes, I see more and more of this nazi tendency... 
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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I think we need to establish balanced teams with interested people first, then let a leader be borne from that. As far as "Leader" goes, I think you are filling the role fine for now. You're kinda like the CEO, establishing the vision for focused work. Let the employees get the job done. If we get teams together and get active discussions on each project, we can start to brainstorm over the project in general. Chances are, as we pour over a project as a team, we may come to realize that the project may need to take a different form altogether (for reasons as mentioned above).
We need a clear consensus on the vision and goals of a project before we even open our IDE. We need a clear system design and requirrements specification. We need to define a target audience (customer) and aim to meet their needs. We need to look beyond the coding aspects of the project and take it as a chance to learn the business and design aspects of the craft as well.
Let's not start too fast, and don't get discouraged over the pace. We want quality not quantity. Let the idea sink in for a while, and lets get some volunteers committed to a team to get the ball rolling so to speak.
Also, we should plan some CP get-togethers to get to know each other beetter. I live in the Dallas TX area, and will be in the DC/Bethesda/PotomacMD area for a week in mud-july. I also plan on being in North-East PA (Wilkes-Barre/Scranton area) in December. Maybe we can gather some people together over a ![Beer | [beer]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/beer.gif) or three.
Anyway, comments?
- Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb
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Nitron wrote:
I think we need to establish balanced teams with interested people first, then let a leader be borne from that.
Perhaps we could do this with UGLY, since the nominees either haven't responded or are less than enthusiastic.
I may setup an article series for UGLY and let people join then establish a leader.
Be patient with me while I iron out the look and feel of the article series. It may be a few days, and right now I need to sleep since I have deprived myself of it for far too long. 
Jason Henderson My articles
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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Nitron wrote:
We need a clear consensus on the vision and goals of a project before we even open our IDE. We need a clear system design and requirrements specification. We need to define a target audience (customer) and aim to meet their needs. We need to look beyond the coding aspects of the project and take it as a chance to learn the business and design aspects of the craft as well.
That's exactly what I'm thinking too. I don't want to start coding as in former times and then having to do so many redesigns to existing code. Why not build our projects that way software has to be build?
Nitron wrote:
Also, we should plan some CP get-togethers to get to know each other beetter. I live in the Dallas TX area
I'd love to attend, but I'm living in Germany  . I love TX and we plan to make one more trip next year, so be carefull what you're saying, maybe I remember where you live ... 
heinz r. vahlbruch
c++ & c# programmer from germany
If IntelliSense doesn't have it, it ain't worth calling - Anonymous
My compiler compiled yours - Seen on a VC++.Net T-Shirt
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Heinz R. Vahlbruch wrote:
I love TX and we plan to make one more trip next year,
remember to let me know if you're coming!
- Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb
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Nitron wrote:
remember to let me know if you're coming!
Outlook will remember me ...  Thanks!
Greetings,
heinz r. vahlbruch
c++ & c# programmer from germany
If IntelliSense doesn't have it, it ain't worth calling - Anonymous
My compiler compiled yours - Seen on a VC++.Net T-Shirt
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Firstly, apologies for my slow response. My CP visiting rights at the moment are quite low in priority, a big push at work, GF wanting all my spare time and moving house as well - so I only get to visit once/twice a day, and there are lots of posts to catch up on.
Jason Henderson wrote:
Tom Welch and Roger Allen have been nominated for the position in the UGLY project. However, Tom hasn't shown himself lately, and Roger seems to have little interest in running it.
Its not that I am not interested in running it, I am in a way, its just me being a bit scared of something new (probably), also, my spare time capacity is low at the moment, and if I did commit to it, I would like to put a bit effort into it.
I do have a variety of ideas, so even if I do not turn out to be PL, I would be interested in reviewing the spec/document and filling in my ideas.
When it comes down to a project like this we are going to need a coding standard of some sort also to make sure that all the individual contributions will fit together easily and not look a mess of different styles (unless one person ended up re-formatting all the code)
These are some of my intial thoughts.
Also, if peple have Sonork, I will be floating around in Bobs hung out for a while so we can chat about any issues if necessary
Roger Allen
Sonork 100.10016
Were you different as a kid? Did you ever say "Ooohhh, shiny red" even once? - Paul Watson 11-February-2003
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Roger Allen wrote:
Firstly, apologies for my slow response. My CP visiting rights at the moment are quite low in priority, a big push at work, GF wanting all my spare time and moving house as well - so I only get to visit once/twice a day, and there are lots of posts to catch up on.
Might this hinder you ability to lead a CP2 team?
Roger Allen wrote:
I do have a variety of ideas, so even if I do not turn out to be PL, I would be interested in reviewing the spec/document and filling in my ideas.
Would you mind if I emailed the abstract template to you directly?
If you don't mind, you will be considered the defacto PL for this project until you relinquish the role or take it up full time.
Jason Henderson My articles
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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Jason Henderson wrote:
Might this hinder you ability to lead a CP2 team?
It may slow me down a bit, but once we have a dedicated article/board for a project, then it will be easier to keep upto date.
Jason Henderson wrote:
Would you mind if I emailed the abstract template to you directly?
Feel free to send it over.
Jason Henderson wrote:
If you don't mind, you will be considered the defacto PL for this project until you relinquish the role or take it up full time.
No problem, if we find someone better, we find someone better.
Roger Allen
Sonork 100.10016
Were you different as a kid? Did you ever say "Ooohhh, shiny red" even once? - Paul Watson 11-February-2003
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Don't forget, this is a very important step! Do it now, while you still remember.
Code Project Project project leaders. CP3 leaders
Hmmm... CP2 has a nice ring to it.
Jason Henderson My articles
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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There's a max of 6 votes per leader. I don't know why no-one's interested in voting for a leader.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi
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read my sig quote
I know CPians are smarter than your average voter, but we had 57 volunteers and maybe 30-40% voted on the projects and even fewer are voting on the leaders.
But thats good. It separates the wheat from the chaff. These projects may be very manageable after all.
Jason Henderson My articles
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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Jason Henderson wrote:
read my sig quote
Maybe we should have campaigns. 
Just joking.
Really, though, how does anyone know who would make a good leader? Obviously, you are a good choice for a leader, and I just have the feeling that Marc Clifton will do well, too, but other than that,   . I tried to get people to speak up if they have leadership experience, but nobody responded, (except for someone who suggested Paul Watson - I posted his name, and he got 2 or 3 votes).
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi
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As I wrote somewhere else, If you are interested in my CV, just send a mail, and I'll send it to you.
- Anders
Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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9 now for Marc (assuming that 1 posted and 8 voted)
However, people seem more obsessed with marketing aspects.... 
"Der Geist des Kriegers ist erwacht / Ich hab die Macht" StS
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen
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I'm trying to keep people focused.
Some idiots voted down my polite rebuke, so I guess I'll have to get mean.
Jason Henderson My articles
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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Yep, it's a pity. Maybe we should look for people willing to PM?
(I made the experience that voluntary democracy works better that way round...)
Jason Henderson wrote:
Some idiots voted down my polite rebuke
I'm permanently busy to vote you "up" again - never thought that this would happen 
"Der Geist des Kriegers ist erwacht / Ich hab die Macht" StS
sighist | Agile Programming | doxygen
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peterchen wrote:
I'm permanently busy to vote you "up" again - never thought that this would happen
He he. Its not politics.
Jason Henderson My articles
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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I voted it a 5, and too often when someone gets a 5 initially, people are all the more aggressive to get it voted down.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi
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peterchen wrote:
However, people seem more obsessed with marketing aspects....
This is one of the main reasons why projects like this fail, too many people obsessed with the trivia and not enough people interested in doing the real work.
Michael
'War is at best barbarism...Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation. War is hell.' - General William Sherman, 1879
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