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Cp-Coder wrote: I will never get in a position where cloud failures can harm me.
If you have any amount of money in a bank, I'm afraid I have bad news for ya...
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One of the reasons I'm no longer working for a bank is because "someone up there" had the bright idea of putting all of our stuff in a cloud. I got out a year ago. Security concerns aside, I tried to warn my management that performance would be even worse -- our daily processing was already taking fifteen hours to complete, on physical servers in our datacenter.
The inmates are running the asylum.
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There are many more reasons, like prop trading, that can get you into trouble if you have a lot of your money in a bank. You're an unsecured creditor of the bank, and many countries have passed legislation saying that your money can be used to bail it out if it gets into trouble. Even if you use a responsible bank, you'll end up paying, in the form of either taxes or money printing, to bail out the banks that are "too big to fail".
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It does the soul good to see you guys talk about how crooked banking is. 1,000% agree btw... Fractional reserve lending is the bane of our economies.
Jeremy Falcon
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It was former Swiss law that the principals of a bank were liable, to the full extent of their personal wealth, for making depositors whole if the bank got into trouble. That law needs to return. So does the US Coin Act of 1793, under which the penalty for debauching the currency was death.
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Amen. There are more banksters that deserve stringing up than muderers. Most murders are "spur of the moment" things, while the bankksters do it deliberately, year after year.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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theft is the loss of time and even loss of life. I agree.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: how crooked banking is. 1,000% agree
I remember a discussion between me and one of my workers over two decades back.
When he was looking at his investment returns, and compared with his bank's yearly profits, he went to his bank manager and said "I want to invest in what you're investing in"...
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I haven't and don't. Probably won't.
Trouble is that it's your data, and you are handing it over to people you don't know who almost certainly pay their staff as little as possible to manage it. What is their security really like? How often do they really backup your data? What are the chances they will still be in business in five years? Or still in the Cloud hosting business, at least?
What happens if ransomware gets into the cloud storage? Just the thought of that should send chills down your spine ...
Just look at stuff that has been trawled out of cloud storage already and you have to wonder why anyone would trust it ... we aren't talking small companies who might not understand the risks: Yahoo, Microsoft, Target, Twatter / X, Farcebook / Meta, LinkedIn, Dropbox, Uber, Marriott International, Equifax, Capital One, iCloud ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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u cant do much the now a days.. but this is the worse thing ever IT people need to stop pushing such crap into production...
Caveat Emptor.
"Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
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Have heard that solutions to some nonlinear differential equations are extremely sensitive to initial conditions. A small delta in the initial conditions causes a drastic change in response.
Never thought that this could happen in code. A small (?) update in a third-party software causes massive outage.
The term SOUP (Software of Unknown Provenance) usually used in medical software, now perhaps applies to the suite of Microsoft products.
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xkcd: Dependency[^]
Nothing else to add.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I had this exact thought both when the cloudstike issue happened last week and while reading this discussion.
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
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First, let me repeat a mantra I’ve heard many years ago: “there is no frigging cloud; it’s someone’s else computer”.
Second, from the superficial reading of news (I’m traveling now), the recent outage was not an issue with the “cloud” but with an antivirus update that went south. It affected equally physical and virtual machines, so let’s not get all worked up about the big bad “cloud”.
Mircea
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you are very generous. I hope you aren't on an airplane.
"It affected equally physical and virtual machines"
Are you serious? Don't get worked up about "the big bad cloud."
I don't know much about azure (other than it's just another more modern system of spinning up a virtual server). Can someone tell me if the core Azure server is running Cloudstink? Ponder that.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Let me assure you that no plane will fall out of the sky due to this bug. Some may not takeoff because passengers couldn’t check in but I’m not due to fly for a week or so.
Mircea
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I'm certain they won't fall out of the sky, but here in the United States the FAA was having issues communicating with a/c in the air due to this issue. It boggles my mind. Of course, these days, the level of information from journalists is borderline cow dung but... I would not put it past our federal government to have put something like this in place. I have experience in this area...
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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With the caveat that my information is sketchy, it seems airlines (in particular UA) had difficulty communicating with ATC to pass information like flight plans and such.
To the best of my knowledge, communication with a/c in flight is still handled or backed up by good old VHF. There is still plenty of sunshine in this world despite the “big bad cloud” 
Mircea
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fair enough, I'll see if I can find my reference.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Mircea Neacsu wrote: First, let me repeat a mantra I’ve heard many years ago: “there is no frigging cloud; it’s someone’s else computer”.
That quote is completely wrong. The "Cloud" is not someone else's computer -- it's a LOT of someone else's computers, connected together in a patchwork of obviously fragile connections. It's not "a" computer, it's an entire ecosystem that is a lot more than just computers.
Mircea Neacsu wrote: Second, from the superficial reading of news (I’m traveling now), the recent outage was not an issue with the “cloud” but with an antivirus update that went south. It affected equally physical and virtual machines, so let’s not get all worked up about the big bad “cloud”.
It doesn't matter what caused the outage, only that it happened, and that is was stupidly easy to prevent, e.g., follow good process and actually test things before putting into production.
The fact that the source of the outage was a bad patch in a secondary system means we SHOULD be upset, as it demonstrates just how fragile the "Cloud" is.
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BryanFazekas wrote: The "Cloud" is not someone else's computer -- it's a LOT of someone else's computers,
Please allow me to argue that you are interacting with one single computer. It might be connected to many other computers but you are receiving data only from ONE computer at a time.
BryanFazekas wrote: It doesn't matter what caused the outage
Again I have to disagree: it does matter. In this case it was a bad antivirus upgrade that caused computers, physical or virtual to crash. The fact that most of those computers were in "the cloud" is completely irrelevant. On your physical computer, do you update/upgrade your antivirus? My answer would be "yes". Do you expect computer to crash after such an upgrade? My answer would be "no".
BryanFazekas wrote: it demonstrates just how fragile the "Cloud" is.
Let me reiterate that this is not a "cloud" issue. A physical computer running CloudStrike software in a room with blue painted walls would have crashed the same way. Would you blame the colour of the walls? If your answer is "no", why would you blame the fact that the computers that crashed were placed in "the cloud".
Mircea
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Nope.
I have my own darn "cloud" in the form of a 2008 r2 server in the garage with gobs of imaged storage. And I barely trust that!
I'm grateful that I can do this for my household in this OneDrive  and whatever that Apple one is world. Two things that poke the Ron bear, backup and the cloud. Now they are synonymous which is a travesty.
Normals at happy hour.... "We're on the cloud are yoooo?. Oh and it's got AI! Dilly Dilly!" 
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I'm not sure how the outage/mess is related to the cloud other than the product name rhymes with cloud. 
That said, I also use 'someone else's servers' in my backup strategy...encrypted of course.
I still occasionally get tricked into saving Office files in OneDrive. 
Passing thought regarding the outage...last week there was a discussion about the awesomeness of PowerShell and managing enterprise systems. So why can't they write a script to rollback the update and reboot, then deploy it? 
Last thought...I'd hate to be on the QA team(s) that approved that update.
Judas Priest - Some Heads Are Gonna Roll (Official Audio) - YouTube[^]
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
"Hope is contagious"
modified 21-Jul-24 19:18pm.
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It has nothing to do w the cloud.
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Of course not. It's just someone else's server.
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
The shortest horror story: On Error Resume Next
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