Taking the plunge - Work Issues Discussion Boards

Michael Martin wrote:
Christopher, I think you will find that you are wrong with that last sentence. As someone who has only worked for three companies over a 15 year period (12 programming) I only set up a resume and got into interview mode when I decided I had to change. 4.5 months ago I got retrenched and as you have already guessed I had no resume let alone had myself ready for interviews. I think this is a valid point you could put into your seminars. Always be prepared.

Hadn't thought of it that way.

Michael Martin wrote:
I still walk in swinging and smack down every idiot in sight and then suffer the consequences later.

Well, what I do and what I feel like doing are often in conflict. I've often fantasized about keeping a baseball bat just to the right of my desk...

Chistopher Duncan
Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)

Put them all together in a seminar called

How to Pick up Chicks for Programmers

and you should have a full house.
Laugh | :laugh:

Interesting topics though - real world skills outside of coding - who would have thought we needed those?

Dave Huff

There are no small projects - only young ones.

Dave Huff wrote:
How to Pick up Chicks for Programmers

Dave, if you find someone to teach that seminar, you'll have to elbow me for a front row seat!

Dave Huff wrote:
Interesting topics though - real world skills outside of coding - who would have thought we needed those?

Yeah, that's what I've come to find. When I first started doing this I thought I could just go to work, crank the tunes and kick out some code. It was a real shock when I realized how much corporate b******t I had to put up with in the course of any given day. One of the things I put in the chapter on estimating is that the average 8 hour day only sees 5 to 6 hours of actual coding. In some environments, I'd be delighted if I got even that much time. That's when I decided to start fighting back. I may win, I may lose (I usually win), but I'll go down swinging!

Chistopher Duncan
Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)

>Coping with company politics:
Yes, I'd like to know how to detect it, react to it, understand it, maybe even play it - this is the one area of work that is guaranteed to spoil life at work every now and then.
Ev

Thanks for the feedback, man.

Evan61 wrote:
this is the one area of work that is guaranteed to spoil life at work every now and then.

Yeah, tell me about it. One of the reasons I don't carry weapons at work...

Chistopher Duncan
Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)

>Coping with company politics:
Yes, I'd like to know how to detect it, react to it, understand it, maybe even play it - this is the one thing that is guaranteed to spoil life at work every now and then.
Ev

I am a 24 yr old , on my first job . Have to constantly go against 40+ yr old mgmt types in the project . I wish thr was less politics and more sensible chaps up thr .
Since the world aint gonna change , I think i bttr do .And thats why I think ur book is so good .

Regards,
Kapil

I'm currently posting anonymously because my boss knows about CP and I don't want him to know that I'm having any thoughts about leaving the company. It may seem underhanded but I have my reasons.

I've been with my current employer since '98 and have been working on and off because my university is about a 7 hour drive away from the business.

I'm starting to feel a bit annoyed at my employer though. So far in 2002 I've received a single paycheck for roughly 1/5 of what I had worked. In 2001 I was shorted about 1/2 of the money I was owed. I think I've always been understanding when it came to keep down my asking for checks when money is tight, but so far it hasn't let up and I don't know how much longer I can go Cry | :((

Now I've got this wacky idea that maybe I should just start up my own business, I've already got a couple people interesting in helping and I live far enough away that I wouldn't be competing with my employer. My dad and I have been going out to peoples homes to fix their computers for quite a few years now so I would already have a customer base.

I would also be thinking about targetting the local businesses around my area for new PCs and (of course) custom software.

For an idea of the type of area this is, there is only one PC repair shop in this county and it has a reputation for screwing up more computers than fixing them. I don't know of any company in the area that offers custom software to businesses and I think most of them rely on places like Dell and Gateway for their workstations and servers.

I'd also be interesting in keeping ties to my current employer since technically I'm just an independent contractor I would like to continue to provide software services to them, however I want out of the entire mess the company is currently in.

And to top it all off my employer doesn't understand that creating a program isn't as simple as creating the gui and its done. I've tried a few times to get them to understand this but it isn't happening.

Now the reason I'm posting. Should I go ahead and start this or should I stick it out and work for essentially nothing until the company turns around?

Is my post long enough yet?

A CP Regular Smile | :)

A CP Regular wrote:
So far in 2002 I've received a single paycheck for roughly 1/5 of what I had worked. In 2001 I was shorted about 1/2 of the money I was owed.

You're a helluva lot nicer guy than I am, I'll give you that. Programming is my passion, but it's also my livelihood. Screw with my money just once, and you'll be trying to teach your Cocker Spanial to debug the code that's left behind. No money - no coding. Period. If you don't pay me what I'm owed, on precisely the agreed upon dates, you'll never even know there's a problem until you wake up one day and I'm simply not there. If you give people like this fair warning, they'll try to make life difficult for you every time. If you can't trust them on something as fundamental as money, you can't trust them at all.

A CP Regular wrote:
Now I've got this wacky idea that maybe I should just start up my own business

Well, if you can afford the financial gamble, I'd say go for it. Just be advised that all startups are a huge risk. The mortality rate for first year business failures is extremely high. Nonetheless, many have done so and succeeded. I owned a software company for several years in the early 90s. I didn't get rich, but I made a decent living on my own terms.

They say that you shouldn't start a business unless you can go without income for the first year (that's not as extreme as you might think). Can you? If not, you're rolling the dice on your ability to eat and pay the rent.

Of course, an additional option is to simply get another job - one that pays you on time, without question. Start up your new company on the side, in your spare time. When it can pay your bills, make the transition.

As for maintaining business relationships with your current employer, ask yourself this question - if it's hard to get payment on time now, when you're there every day, how much harder is it going to be to get your invoices paid when he's a customer? In other words, what, are you nuts?

If you don't depend on the money you get from programming to pay your bills and eat, then screw this guy and write code that you want to write, just for the fun of it. If you do depend on the money you make as a programmer, then screw this guy and quietly go out and find another job. Why quietly? No point terminating one source of income until you have another to replace it. There is no dishonor in self defense.

And just for the record, while it's true that I'm a mercenary and will never play fair with those who don't play fair with me, I also believe in living and working with honor and integrity. When I take a gig, I give them 100% (sometimes more) and always do my best to act ethically and in the company's best interests. When it's time to go (happens sooner or later no matter how good the gig is), I make sure they have notice and are taken care of, and leave the door open for them to call me at home after I'm gone if they're in a jam with my code. That's always paid off for me. In the past 12 years, I've only had to cover my tail a couple of times. The rest has been an exercise in good karma - they treat me right, and I bend over backwards to take good care of them. And the other couple of times? Well, the details certainly aren't on my resume. One thing you can count on, though. I sure didn't give them fair warning.

That's the problem with this business. Lots of absolutely killer programmers out there, but many of them don't know how to cover their tails in the business world. I just hate seeing honest and talented people get taken advantage of. Perhaps it shows...

So, how's that for long?

Chistopher Duncan
Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)

Christopher Duncan wrote:
You're a helluva lot nicer guy than I am, I'll give you that. Programming is my passion, but it's also my livelihood.

If it were a "normal" job I would have walked out the first time it happened. But this is the one thing I love to do, hence my stupidity in staying for so long. This wasn't a problem thats been on-going, it started very early last year, then got back to normal, now it seems that the bottom has fellen out.

Christopher Duncan wrote:
Well, if you can afford the financial gamble, I'd say go for it.

Personally I don't have much of a gamble, I live at home because college costs too much (and work doesn't pay often enough) for me to live on my own. My dad first suggested the idea so I'm pretty sure my parents will back me.

Christopher Duncan wrote:
In other words, what, are you nuts?

Temporary bout of insanity? Roll eyes | :rolleyes:

Very good point though.

Christopher Duncan wrote:
If you don't depend on the money you get from programming to pay your bills and eat, then screw this guy and write code that you want to write, just for the fun of it.

Since I live at home there isn't much in the way of bills. I pay for my car and gas plus any of my extra stuff (books and entertainment). Aside from that I don't use much money. So I may just do that for a bit.

Christopher Duncan wrote:
So, how's that for long?

*clap, clap, clap*

Thanks for taking the time to write *so* much Smile | :)

- CP Regular

Hey, man.

Saw your post below that you're notifying your boss Monday. Good for you. You're fortunate in that you don't have a lot of bills to pay. So there's absolutely no reason that you should let someone take advantage of you. Besides, if you don't have to go in to a (somewhat non paying) job, you can spend all day playing with .NET, right? Smile | :)

Give 'em hell, and don't let him buffalo you into staying. He'll try every promise, threat and plea he can come up with to keep you there. Don't fall for it.

In the vernacular of the streets, "Money talks. B******t walks."

A CP Regular wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to write *so* much

Hey, we programmers have to stick together!

Good luck!

Chistopher Duncan
Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)

Christopher Duncan wrote:
Besides, if you don't have to go in to a (somewhat non paying) job, you can spend all day playing with .NET, right?

Yep Smile | :)

I do need some cash so I can purchase VS.NET, I tried doing it with just the command line tools and my trusty EditPlus, but the Win/Web Forms designer is worth $200 to me Smile | :)

I'm going to take my dad's advice and put an ad in the local paper this week offering in home service pc upgrades. Being in a very rural area no one offers that service so I should be able to work out fairly well. If that doesn't work out Burger King and McDonald's are just a block away Big Grin | :-D

James

Sonork ID: 100.11138 - Hasaki
"Smile your little smile, take some tea with me awhile.
And every day we'll turn another page.
Behind our glass we'll sit and look at our ever-open book,
One brown mouse sitting in a cage."
"One Brown Mouse" from Heavy Horses, Jethro Tull 1978

James T. Johnson wrote:
Besides, if you don't have to go in to a (somewhat non paying) job, you can spend all day playing with .NET, right?

Yep

Okay, so is this the emoticon that shows me green with envy? Roll eyes | :rolleyes:

James T. Johnson wrote:
If that doesn't work out Burger King and McDonald's are just a block away

In my previous lifetime, I spent 10 years in marketing (which is how I learned to survive corporate war games). After one particularly interesting client, I spent the night drinking a bottle of tequila with my company officers and swearing to get out of the business. After that, I closed the company, crashed with some friends for a few months & studied C night & day. To earn spare money, I picked up whatever playing gigs I could (slim) and otherwise did the office cleaning thing at night. Let me tell you, after 10 years in marketing, it felt good to do an honest day's work!

James T. Johnson wrote:
I'm going to take my dad's advice and put an ad in the local paper this week offering in home service pc upgrades.

I seem to change careers about every ten years or so. I don't plan it, it just kinda works out that way. Consequently, I strongly believe that anyone can change directions in life if they're willing to put some effort into it and believe in themselves.

That's how I know your business will be a huge success - go for it, man!

Chistopher Duncan
Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)

A CP Regular wrote:
ForumWork Issues / Certification / Resumes
Subject:Re: Taking the plunge
Sender:A CP Regular
Date:19:23 14 Mar '02

I'm currently posting anonymously because my boss knows about CP and I don't want him to know that I'm having any thoughts about leaving the company. It may seem underhanded but I have my reasons.

I've been with my current employer since '98 and have been working on and off because my university is about a 7 hour drive away from the business.

I'm starting to feel a bit annoyed at my employer though. So far in 2002 I've received a single paycheck for roughly 1/5 of what I had worked. In 2001 I was shorted about 1/2 of the money I was owed. I think I've always been understanding when it came to keep down my asking for checks when money is tight, but so far it hasn't let up and I don't know how much longer I can go

You think if your boss reads this, he won't be able to figure out it's you ?

A CP Regular wrote:
Now the reason I'm posting. Should I go ahead and start this or should I stick it out and work for essentially nothing until the company turns around?

If they are not paying you, and especially if you don't have a NDA that excludes the possibility of you doing other work, you should give it a go.

Christian

The tragedy of cyberspace - that so much can travel so far, and yet mean so little.

"I'm thinking of getting married for companionship and so I have someone to cook and clean." - Martin Marvinski, 6/3/2002

Christian Graus wrote:
You think if your boss reads this, he won't be able to figure out it's you ?

It can't be Nish !
Because that would be an unsurvivable figure.

Regardz
Colin J Davies

Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin

Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority. -- Doctor Who
<marquee behavior="alternate" scrollamount="20" onmouseover="stop()" onmouseout="start()"> Jig | [Dance]

28 th Law of Computing:
Anything that can go wr#
Segment

No, not Nish Smile | :)

- CP Regular

A CP Regular wrote:
No, not Nish

Good luck anyhow !

Regardz
Colin J Davies

Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin

Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority. -- Doctor Who
<marquee behavior="alternate" scrollamount="20" onmouseover="stop()" onmouseout="start()"> Jig | [Dance]

28 th Law of Computing:
Anything that can go wr#
Segment

Colin Davies wrote:
Good luck anyhow !

Thanks Colin Smile | :)

- CP Regular

Christian Graus wrote:
You think if your boss reads this, he won't be able to figure out it's you ?

I doubt he's actually going to come here in the first place, and if he does it would probably only to see what I've been posting. But you're right I did give way too much info, one of my nasty habits Frown | :(

If he finds out its me, no big deal really; it'll be a not-so-subtle hint but one he had to do some work for Smile | :)

Christian Graus wrote:
If they are not paying you, and especially if you don't have a NDA that excludes the possibility of you doing other work, you should give it a go.

*glances over contract*

I do have an NDA, but i don't think there is much for there to be concerned about, the direction they're going and the direction I want to go are two different things with little information that could be considered proprietary (standard pc repair and troubleshooting). On the software side what would I have to watch out for?

CP Regular

Thanks for your suggestions everyone; my boss will be notified on monday Big Grin | :-D

- CP Regular

I was looking into taking the desktop applications and distributed applications by VC++ (I think test numbers 015 and 016).

Is it worth taking these test now with .NET out?
What is the best way to prepare for these tests? Someone told me that the exam cram series books by Coriolis were good. But then they are out of print which again tells me that either the test is about to expire or that the books are grossly outdated and that the test format has changed.

So whats a good source to prepare for the test?

Thanks.

Yes these exams are still worth it. All the exams necessary for .NET won't be available until sometime in 2003. Even so MS has been quoted as saying there are no current plans to retire the existing MCSD certs.

I used the Exam Cram books to get an idea of the subject matter but relied mostly on experience and study from other sources, such as MSDN.

Mark Nischalke wrote:
I used the Exam Cram books

Do you find them any good?

Now taking suggestionsfor a new sig. please email me all suggestions.

I used the Exam Cram books and I did it 6 month ago .. but like you I'm worry about the somekind of retirement ..

I have recently been asked to take a C++ test administered by TeckChek. I have no idea what all they will cover. It just says C++. Anyone out there who has taken this test.

Thanks