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bryce wrote:
what it lacks atm is a good windows type app which doesnt plug into anything or act as a proxy
Call me stupid, but is there another way to make one work ?
I can't seem to think outside of the box on this. 
Regardz
Colin J Davies
* WARNING *
This could be addictive
The minion's version of "Catch ![Green Alien | [Alien]](https://codeproject.freetls.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/alien.gif) "
It's a real shame that people as stupid as you can work out how to use a computer. said by Christian Graus in the Soapbox
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Three ideas.
1. The idea that Chris Maunder mentioned. The good thing about that project is that it is doable, practical. It can consist of a foundation layer and then phases as new controls are built. Results can be quickly achieved which is vital to the success of a project team like this. The down side is it is web-dev and I know not everyone here is interested in that.
2. A code snippet library sharing app and service, thing. Naturally with a Visual Studio add-in. There are a lot of them out there but after having spent a week downloading and testing most of them the common problem is they are nice but hardcore programmers will hate them. You know, the command line type of guy. Most of them are a pain to setup and have a bunch of features that hardcore okes will never use. It needs to be something really slick, something focused and direct that works like a hardcore chap expects it to.
3. A project management system. Phase tracking, bugs, document storage, client feedback area etc. Not a source control system, but a system for the management of a project that both managers/clients and the developers are happy with. We all bitch about management of projects, so lets do something about it for once.
Also for the project in general, especially the first time out, I would like to say; Think small, think focused, think useful.
An operating system, a game? Come on guys, we know how that will go, it won't. We need something that will do one or two things very, very well. Something that can start small, a foundation layer, be released, see results and then can be extended as needed.
It must be attainable.
Management of this is going to be a nightmare. People get bored, go on holiday, disagree, fail to deliver or just disapear. Splinter groups will form.
So if we do something small and focused the first time it sets a good precedent for later, larger projects. Lets rather get our internals working before we try and fix the world 
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa
Chris Losinger wrote:
i hate needles so much i can't even imagine allowing one near The Little Programmer
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On track!
Paul Watson wrote:
The down side is it is web-dev and I know not everyone here is interested in that.
I'm interested, but I don't have Windows 2000/XP, so I can't test ASP .NET stuff. That doesn't mean I can't code them, though.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." - Jesus
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind." - Mahatma Gandhi
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Paul Watson wrote:
We need something that will do one or two things very, very well. Something that can start small, a foundation layer, be released, see results and then can be extended as needed.
This is needed so we can work out the bugs and see how this whole project thing works out. Use a spiral model. Build small, then build layer by layer like on onion.
This doesn't mean you can't have a grand idea. Just keep the initial requirements to a minimum.
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Paul Watson wrote:
3. A project management system. Phase tracking, bugs, document storage, client feedback area etc. Not a source control system, but a system for the management of a project that both managers/clients and the developers are happy with. We all bitch about management of projects, so lets do something about it for once.
I'm up for participation in this one.
Michael
'War is at best barbarism...Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation. War is hell.' - General William Sherman, 1879
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Why don't you split up your ideas, so that we easier can vote on the one we like.
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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Please put these ideas in seperate messages so they can be voted on individually.
Then add your general comment to the comments section.
We gotta follow the rules Paul. 
Thanks.
Jason Henderson My articles
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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Jason Henderson wrote:
We gotta follow the rules Paul.
Apologies Saheeb. I will repost.
On that though really we should have another thread called Final Ideas (you create it and populate it with each seperate idea, merging similar or ideas which are the same.) Then there can be a call for two days of voting (not over a weekend) for the final tally. As it is now the main rush of voting was probably over before the last few ideas.
Not that I mind much either way really, whatever gets us going is the best
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa
Chris Losinger wrote:
i hate needles so much i can't even imagine allowing one near The Little Programmer
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Paul Watson wrote:
On that though really we should have another thread called Final Ideas (you create it and populate it with each seperate idea, merging similar or ideas which are the same.) Then there can be a call for two days of voting (not over a weekend) for the final tally. As it is now the main rush of voting was probably over before the last few ideas.
That's what I generally had in mind.
Jason Henderson My articles
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
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Write a MFC book based on the best articles here at Codeproject. We rewrite the articles, update the source code like UGLY and publish the result as a book.
jhaga
CodeProject House, Paul Watson wrote:
...and the roar of John Simmons own personal Nascar in the garage. Meg flitting about taking photos.Chris having an heated arguement with Colin Davies and .S.Rod. over egian values. Nish manically typing *censur*. Duncan racing around after his pet *c.* Michael Martin and Bryce loudly yelling *c.* C.G. having a fit as Roger Wright loads up *c.* . Anna waving her *c.* and Deb scoffing chocolates in the corner.
...Good heavens!
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How about some type of real-time collaboration add-in for VS, kinda like netmeeting, that would allow us to log into a session and work together on the same solution. It would need to incorporate a messaging and whiteboard system as well as mechanisms for who reads/writes the files and a way to track changes/et. al. May seem overwhelming at first, but with enough polishing, we may end up with a workable environment.
- Nitron
"Those that say a task is impossible shouldn't interrupt the ones who are doing it." - Chinese Proverb
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Well, at the risk of getting flamed, and as I have seen a couple of application framework ideas posted, how about helping with the Visual Component Framework[^]? It's easy to use, better laid out than MFC, and will eventually run on multiple platforms (the GTK and Mac port are in progress, and I see no reason it couldn't work on devices like WinCE).
In addition it has a really cool RTTI/Reflection API making writing plugin/add-ins a cinch.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire!
Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)!
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I was working on a tool that I planned to use to help manage systems and resources. I called it mprms, Multipurpose Resource Management System. Since it was a personal project it got sidetracked due to workload and never restarted.
It basically helps an administrator to manage his resources. If it is a resource, disk space, memory, processes, then this can monitor it. No real limit to what you can monitor. You could have a device that senses temperature. This could have a module that monitors that device and does something in response to a threshold. All you need is an interface. It isn't limited to a monitoring a computer, the computer is just the tool of choice.
Build an engine that does nothing useful. The engine does two things. Reads a configuration file, loads individual modules that do the real work. Each module is a specialized module that performs a specific function. Like the temperature monitor.
I have documentation and if anyone thinks this is worthwhile I will write up an article and submit as a project option.
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How about a Widget 
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It's probably been done a bunch of different ways, but to develop on Paul's idea, I'd say we need to bootstrap ourselves. A nifty little task manager would be seem to be the first thing, then the other stuff Paul mentioned.
Marc
Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"
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I don't have any particularly concrete ideas on this, but I'm really frustrated how multi-threading hasn't taken off (at least, it seems that way to me!), especially regarding multiprocessors or distributed computing. There must be trillions to the trillionth idle cycles spent by computers. And yes, there's some commercial stuff out there that can distribute processing over the Internet, but the last time I checked, it was bloody expensive.
So that's the idea, I guess--an Internet distributed computing engine to consume all those idle cycles. I haven't checked to see if there's already a freeware/shareware of this (probably there is, but I didn't find anything a year ago when I was looking).
Marc
Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"
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It is a great idea. I want to do this. With the ability for the distributed process to yield to native (local user) processes, so that it does not actually create problems for the willing donors of CPU cycles, this would be a tremendous system.
What we propose is a
task scheduler that can que jobs across multiple job queues running on multiple machines. The central dispatcher is capable of monitor progress and identify abnormal termination of tasks (caused by the remote machine having a power failure, app crash etc) and dispatch it to another job queue.
An application using this can create stand alone jobs that is dispatched using the scheduler. The job itself contains the complete context required for its progress. The job also can implement progress status updates to the local job queue, that can be send back to the scheduler, so that it can take some scheduling decisions.
In short, a parallel processing system that can scale to any number of machines, but controlled from a cental location. Amazing!
Thomas
My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers
modified 29-Aug-18 21:01pm.
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Your description sounds exactly like what I have had in mind for years now. And I agree--let's do it! I'm looking forward to your ideas--I don't have anything concrete in mind except the vision, and you were right on target with stand alone jobs that can be re-dispatched, etc.
Marc
Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"
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I get so tired of writing code. I'd like to take my database schema, hook it up to the GUI, add little lightning bolt icons for events, wire them up, have an arrow go off to a workflow process that's a box that if I double click on it, it drills down into the workflow specifics (OK, maybe there's some real code there, maybe not!), I'd like to drop little spools of thread to indicate what processes are worker threads, visually diagram loops, states, and data triggers, have hardware streams really look like streams in a pipe or bucket brigade or whatever where I can attach different process boxes, etc. Same thing for data in a workflow process. Visually see where all the data is being pulled from, when, how, and where the processed stuff goes (back to DB, GUI, out a port, TCP/IP, etc). With IL, you should be able to generate all the code behind the stuff and good, if not great, performance.
I did something like this for a very specific application once. It was a set of core functions for experimenting with different compression algorithms. You could split the data stream, convert bytes to bits and back, run length encode, tupple encode, Hadamard transform, etc. It was great fun stringing together little process boxes and watch it all work. Generalizing this to a truly visual development methodology would be so cool (I think). Especially the drill down capability.
I also put together a nifty little database to GUI interface that looked at the foreign key relationships and figured out how to construct the SQL statements to do things like populate a GUI from a selected item. Saved tons of coding time, and could be done completely visually. C#'s DataSet's et al are great, but too much damn code.
Marc
Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"
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I like the idea of a common GUI libray for Windows and .NET and that is huge project on its own. But, I also like to see more useful tools for ASP.NET. It is a real pain having to code a GUI multiple times!
For me the Win32 platform by itself is pretty much dead. So this may not apply. But in my world I do a lot of ASP.NET and WinForms Applications. The pain is that I have to build completely different GUIs for both. How about a libary that can make this process easier and also add benifit to an application where even an end user could adjust their presentation layer if they want to post-production?
Common GUI:
Common Control Library - Have a set of controls that have the exact same interfaces for both Web or WinForm. Ths code inside the presentation layer would be the same for both. Controls would give the same appearence but maybe with a setting on a control to determine if a lighter weight version of the control should be used (less graphics and control if bound by bandwidth) but still remain transparently identical to the calling code.
Along with the custom controls, there should be some form of data validation that works exactly the same for both web and WinForm.
Maybe even have an option to use an IE base view for WinForm apps and build embedded ASP.NET apps. That could cut down the time involved and still make both look the same.
It would be so cool if a person could build a Portal application that has all the functionality of something like .NETNuke or IBuySpy portal with forums, polls, etc. all based inside of an application using heavy graphics if desired.
Think of just having a grid that can work the same for Web/WinForm! I know there is a differnce due to bandwidth and client browser levels but if the issues are examined carefully, there may be common ground that would allow them to act the same on both without much sacrifice on either.
Layout Manager - Builds the WinForm window or web page based on XML configuration data either embedded or in a file. This file would contain all the settings for any of the controls on the window including position, skins, defaults, etc. An editor for this would have to be put together which could also be used post production on an application to change the appearance without changing any code (somewhat like a DialogResource started out to be). This XML file should allow allow for "includes" or something of that nature to provide decent visual inheritance.
And while there, might touch on a custom data binding so that a person does not have to rely on the .NET internal buggy databinding.
Well, this is an idea of what could really be a cool cross between an application framework, a GUI control library and a web designer.
Oh yeah, I forgot, for those that have never done web work, it would allow them to build a WinForm app, make a few adjustments and have a web application running!
Rocky Moore <><
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Rocky Moore wrote:
Common Control Library - Have a set of controls that have the exact same interfaces for both Web or WinForm. Ths code inside the presentation layer would be the same for both. Controls would give the same appearence but maybe with a setting on a control to determine if a lighter weight version of the control should be used (less graphics and control if bound by bandwidth) but still remain transparently identical to the calling code.
I have a couple articles on that:
http://www.codeproject.com/cs/miscctrl/DynamicForms.asp[^]
http://www.codeproject.com/cs/miscctrl/DynFormPartII.asp[^]
Want to work with me on developing them further (after a redesign of the initial concept, I should think!)
Rocky Moore wrote:
Builds the WinForm window or web page based on XML configuration data either embedded or in a file.
I'm almost finished with the next article in the AAL series that uses XML for GUI generation. The last one, http://www.codeproject.com/cs/menu/AAL-4.asp[^] uses XML to generate menus (I'll need to send you a better version of the source if you're interested in this).
Rocky Moore wrote:
the .NET internal buggy databinding
Buggy how? I've dabbled with it a bit with the XML Data Editor I put together. Seemed fine, except what pisses me off is that you have to press the Tab key for it to recognize that a field changed in value. Probably can be fixed, but I didn't bother looking.
Rocky Moore wrote:
Oh yeah, I forgot, for those that have never done web work, it would allow them to build a WinForm app, make a few adjustments and have a web application running!
Exactly. The worst thing though is the state stuff. Have to figure that part out. Anyways, want to work together on your idea?
Marc
Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Buggy how? I've dabbled with it a bit with the XML Data Editor I put together. Seemed fine, except what pisses me off is that you have to press the Tab key for it to recognize that a field changed in value. Probably can be fixed, but I didn't bother looking.
There are several things that cause problems. Once of them is when working with tab pages. Another once that is more of a hassle than a bug, when using multiple comboboxes with that may select key values and changing one changes the others. The one that bit me the most is the rebinding needed if you should use different datasets. You can to clear and merge your sets to maintain the binding. There were others but those are the ones still fresh in the old memory
Marc Clifton wrote:
I have a couple articles on that:
....
Want to work with me on developing them further (after a redesign of the initial concept, I should think!)
I missed those. Now I have more reading to do Browsing over them though, it appears we are in the same ballpark. I did not see how you use the controls yet (still have to look through them). I would think it would be easier to use custom built controls that all share the same common interfaces regardless of web or WinForm. Yeah know, kind of like splitting the presentation layer away from the core of the control and have it implement the actual IO dependant on platform. There may not be enough in common though to justify it.
As an example, if you have to add a custom column to a grid control, your code for the display has to be completely different. It may be hard, but imagine if the code you wrote for a window was actually the same code as you would write for the web page (at least the code behind). Same events, same contols interfaces, same databinding. It really just pushes the "presentation layer" down lower into the controls themselves.
I may be way out there though, I have not spent enough time examining what is actually possible.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Exactly. The worst thing though is the state stuff. Have to figure that part out. Anyways, want to work together on your idea?
State is a problem in many ways Actually, it doesn't sound like just my idea, seems the goal is in both camps Would be interesting!
Rocky Moore <><
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